Mclaren Mp 4/12C review, what did you think?

It's a 'classic' and contemporary design. I can't find anything wrong with it tbh. The design of the 458 doesn't do much for me either.

I think the 458 is downright ugly!
But it's design provokes emotions. The mclaren is just bland and a whole lot of nothing.

edit. And the engine noise of the ferrari is spectacular!
 
Last edited:
I understand the "lack of soul" part and yeah, I have to agree with Jeremy. I too felt a lack of... something, some feeling to the car. It's a precision tool it's an engineering marvel, but it's also... cold.

IMHO, the Mclaren is almost like a dentist, or a surgeon. You go there and you know you will come out better, he will treat you well, he's professional, clean and precise but... you simply cannot relax while being there.

A lot of people won't agree with me and will think I'm an idiot (numbers are everything, after all). But passion, that feeling like the car is "alive" thing, that can't be put into a computer simulation (and no, I'm not saying Ferrari doesn't use computers :p).

(just my 2 cents :))
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: MWF
That's really nicely put.

It's like being given a choice between having dinner with a finance minister or a famous actor. They might both be brilliant at what they do but you'd lump for the actor every time.
 
Some butthurt Mclaren fans ITT (joke, my rep is gonna take hell for that)

Then again Id hate it if TG reviewed my car negatively.

The Ferrari has the X factor, what TG apparently looks for in a car above all else. Ep 1x01.
 
Last edited:
*turns on sensible me* I like that MP4-12C - komfy suspension and fuel consumption are good things. */sensible me*
*turns on Clarkson me* BUT FERRARI HAS TEH GOOD FEELINGS!
 
SO Tiff has a problem with it because it wouldn't let him power slide it .. saying he was trying to make it do something it was designed not to do .. well try to drive it without a power slide and see what happens.

And their lap times said it was slower than the Ferrari??? where did 3 seconds disappear ? Maybe they should get some lessons from new Stig - or stop trying to make smoke and make some speed

Tiff said after the TG episode aired that they (FG) did not use the whole track, just a part of it. Given how much of a handful the Macca looked compared to the 458 when Plato was driving them, I'd say they used a course that was more technical than about out and out speed :|
 
On video that was released by Mclaren they have taken the car arround the 'Ring but I'm not sure if there are times on the net about how fast it was.

My personal opinion is that the MP4-12C is more of a car to use point to point rather than the 458 which is more 'fun'.

Also given the stability system in the Mclaren could this be why the car was slower in the 5th Gear test as it uses its brakes to control slides that are getting to what the computer believes to be uncontrollable resulting in lost performance?
 
Well Jeremy said it was developed on TG test track. Maybe the actual car was a bit tuned...
The lap was absolutely stunning, and their reaction ? "Wow. Amazing. Anyway..."

Ferrari tune each press demonstrator car specifically for the test it's going to be involved in.
Was it the journalist from Evo magazine that was complaining about that? For a shootout against the Porsche 911 Ferrari brought two 458s - one set up for handling and the other for acceleration, gave them the latter for their 0-60 comparisons against the Porsche and the other for the handling test. There's a thread on here somewhere about it.

As for the "soul" nonsense - yes like most others I saw that conclusion coming a mile off, and it's bottom of the shelf road-test clich? that would get your application for a job as a car reviewer rejected by me if I worked at a car magazine.
A car has whatever "soul" you imbue it with. If you love a car and treat it like a companion (er), that's the personality it has to you. Whether it's a Rover or a Ferrari. Ferraris seem to have "soul" to Jeremy because he expects them to, and so he imbues the car with those properties in his mind. It's a self fulfilling expectation, nothing else.
If his main criticism had been the looks I'd be 100% on board - it's like a Gallardo, R8 and 430 had a three-way head on crash and the McLaren popped out.
 
Most of the testers complained about the MP4 "interfering" too much, or stated that it handled erratic. Both of which can easily be explained by them having the traction control on and it trying to make the car behave (which for us mere mortals means it'll be faster and more survivable :p). Some even stated you couldn't turn it off. Only TG stated they KNEW about how to turn it off so we must assume they did so when the Stig drove it.

Ofcourse, given the fact that the car was developed at the TG test track they had tons of data on how to make it perform there so they have a clear (unfair) advantage. Until some non-TG actually compares it without the traction control, we simply can't know the "real" data. What worries me though is how most tests kidna concluded that the TC was interfering but they never disabled it (and some even stating you couldn't), makes you wonder how much effort they put into their tests...

Having said that, and in compliance with May's current issue with cars being aimed at the "wrong kind of performance", who really cares about numbers. The MP4 looks boring, sounds boring and its interior looks bland so it doesn't matter how fast it is, it's just not what a supercar should be; an event.
 
Having said that, and in compliance with May's current issue with cars being aimed at the "wrong kind of performance", who really cares about numbers. The MP4 looks boring, sounds boring and its interior looks bland so it doesn't matter how fast it is, it's just not what a supercar should be; an event.

It depends. Jeremy and Richard both had Lamborghini Gallardos and both got rid of them before long, and both for the same reason. It was too flashy. It's the kind of car you buy if you're rich and starving for attention. You get dressed up in your Lamborghini polo shirt, Lambo jacket, Lambo hat, Lambo sunglasses, and you roar around trying to get everyone's attention so you can feel important. But all you get are chavs in modified Astra's trying to race you everywhere.

To me, the McLaren looks rather professional and conservative. The kind of supercar you would drive to a fancy dinner party and not look like a complete cock. In that respect, it's very British. I love the Ferrari 458, but if I could afford one, I'd opt for the McLaren instead.
 
I agree completely with the OP. To me, the MP4-12C is the most amazing car ever produced. It doesn't have the spirit of the McLaren F1 but I chalk that up to the fact that McLaren is actually designing this as a car to be driven and owned, not just to outperform all its contemporaries.

Still, though, the MP4-12C is one of my favorite cars of all time.
 
It depends. Jeremy and Richard both had Lamborghini Gallardos and both got rid of them before long, and both for the same reason. It was too flashy. It's the kind of car you buy if you're rich and starving for attention. You get dressed up in your Lamborghini polo shirt, Lambo jacket, Lambo hat, Lambo sunglasses, and you roar around trying to get everyone's attention so you can feel important. But all you get are chavs in modified Astra's trying to race you everywhere.

To me, the McLaren looks rather professional and conservative. The kind of supercar you would drive to a fancy dinner party and not look like a complete cock. In that respect, it's very British. I love the Ferrari 458, but if I could afford one, I'd opt for the McLaren instead.

Being an event and being flashy can be two very different things. It's not necessarily about being very loud and shouting "POWER!", it can be a lot more (or less, depending on how you look at it). Like May's drive in that 70's Aston or an old Maserati 5000GT. Looks&feel , attention to detail (to me at least) are a bigger part of something being an event than simply power and shouting :)

To me the Arnage is an event, because it's magnificent even though technically it's not very good or very fast, and for that same reason I find the newer Bentley GT (and derivatives) to be entirely underwhelming, fake and boring.
 
Last edited:
To be honest, If i wanted an amazingly fast car which was purely a technical marvel that is fairly easy to live with, I'd buy a GT-R. If I was spending Mclaren/Ferrari Money, I'd want something which makes me feel truly special, even if it comes at a loss of practicality, comfort, or track speed, all while making you like a bit of a cock. Ofcourse, If I had enough money for both, Id get both the Fezza and the McLaren. Also, that black roof 458 looked damn fine.
 
Until some non-TG actually compares it without the traction control, we simply can't know the "real" data.

I don't understand this. The traction control makes it faster - why would you want to turn it off?

There's no way that the McLaren bested the Ferrari by 3 seconds on mechanical grip and power alone. The traction control system minimizes the car's wasted potential, redirecting that potential instead to the tarmac. The idea is that no single horsepower or torque is left spinning the wheels unnecessarily - instead, the car uses most amount of power possible to pull you through the other side of the corner. It behaves like it's on rails due to the highly sophisticated system that McLaren has provided with the car.

In most cars, traction control systems serve only to "correct" dangerous maneuvers by the drivers and keep them alive. In the McLaren, the traction control system is there to make sure the car perform to its highest capabilities at all times (this same type of electronic system is in the Nissan GT-R), just like the traction control system on a Formula 1 car. This is why the McLaren engineer looked at Jeremy with a weird face when he asked how to turn off the traction control - he was probably thinking, "You mad man, we use traction control on our Formula 1 cars, why would you want to take it off for anything?"

The reason the MP4-12C won't spin is because spinning is inefficient and the car has been designed to remove inefficiencies. In the same way that the suspension is superb and the engine is among the most efficient engine ever produced (in terms of Co2 emissions per horsepower).

So yeah, I think it's silly to assume that Stig took the traction control off. In fact it's impossible because I don't think the slight weight reduction and slight horsepower gain alone is enough to best the Ferrari 458 by 3 seconds. It had to have been the fact that his corner exit speeds were significantly higher due to the traction control system that got him around the track so quickly.
 
I don't understand this. The traction control makes it faster - why would you want to turn it off?

There's no way that the McLaren bested the Ferrari by 3 seconds on mechanical grip and power alone. The traction control system minimizes the car's wasted potential, redirecting that potential instead to the tarmac. The idea is that no single horsepower or torque is left spinning the wheels unnecessarily - instead, the car uses most amount of power possible to pull you through the other side of the corner. It behaves like it's on rails due to the highly sophisticated system that McLaren has provided with the car.

In most cars, traction control systems serve only to "correct" dangerous maneuvers by the drivers and keep them alive. In the McLaren, the traction control system is there to make sure the car perform to its highest capabilities at all times (this same type of electronic system is in the Nissan GT-R), just like the traction control system on a Formula 1 car. This is why the McLaren engineer looked at Jeremy with a weird face when he asked how to turn off the traction control - he was probably thinking, "You mad man, we use traction control on our Formula 1 cars, why would you want to take it off for anything?"

I posted a few videos of British car magazines testing both the Ferrari and the McLaren. Both had TC on and both times the Ferrari was over a second faster. Make of that what you will. AFAIK TC is illegal in F1. (Vikirad will know surely :p)
 
Being an event and being flashy can be two very different things. It's not necessarily about being very loud and shouting "POWER!", it can be a lot more (or less, depending on how you look at it). Like May's drive in that 70's Aston or an old Maserati 5000GT. Looks&feel , attention to detail (to me at least) are a bigger part of something being an event than simply power and shouting :)

To me the Arnage is an event, because it's magnificent even though technically it's not very good or very fast, and for that same reason I find the newer Bentley GT (and derivatives) to be entirely underwhelming, fake and boring.
I can agree with you about that, but I was referring more to your statement about the MP 4/12C being boring looking with a boring exhaust note. To me, those things aren't very important to a car being an event either. I can say without any shadow of doubt, that if I got to drive a McLaren MP 4/12C, it would be the greatest event in my life. As for looks and exhaust note, I've seen plenty of old American muscle cars that were among the most beautiful looking vehicles ever built, with the most intense exhaust notes I've ever heard. But something like an McLaren would be an even bigger event for so many other reasons. Are there cars that are more of an event? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean the McLaren wouldn't be an event to experience.
 
Different people like different things, which is good ofcourse. For me personally; I don't care much for HP or top speed or numbers in general, to me style matters more. So to me the MP4 is all about numbers and severely lacking in the style department :p
 
I posted a few videos of British car magazines testing both the Ferrari and the McLaren. Both had TC on and both times the Ferrari was over a second faster. Make of that what you will. AFAIK TC is illegal in F1. (Vikirad will know surely :p)
It is illegal in F1.
 
Top