Nissan claims electric car test was 'rigged'; has 'evidence'

I think top gear is loosing it's 'documentary/informational' parts at the expense of more 'entertainment'. This Nissan issue comes on the top of the Telsa debarcle, which is going to give the TG crew a bad name. They've already been refused a Dodge, how long until other makers start boycotting them?


Wyvern said:
Perhaps surprisingly, the opposite is true; you'll get less efficient performance and the charge will hold less well in cold weather. ..
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Which is why your car's battery always dies at the onset of winter. :p
 
Aussie Muscle said:
They've already been refused a Dodge, how long until other makers start boycotting them?
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Oh no! They will never review the Dodge Caliber! And what if Lada never lets them test drive the Riva?! Such an enormous loss!
 
skidd said:
Oh no! They will never review the Dodge Caliber!
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Well, there is the matter of the new Viper when it comes out. Besides, I think this particular embargo is over. I can't imagine the boys at Fiat refusing Top Gear anything.

What you really need to worry about is SIAC. After all, TG isn't very happy about the new MG, and they do own the IP to Ssangyong and, most critically, Morris. And since, eventually, the Chinese will own everything...you can connect the dots.
 
jmsprovan said:
I think Robert Llewellyn is a pretty cool guy, but his comment on that article alleging that Top Gear supports Hydrogen tech because Shell produces it and Shell sponsors Top Gear Live is some serious Tinfoil hat fuckery.
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Sounds like Robert's nipple nuts need adjustment. Anyone want to ask him who paid for his trip to Portugal to review the Leaf on Fifth Gear? And why Portugal in the first place?
 
Wyvern said:
That's very interesting... the US EPA range estimate is at least 10% lower than Nissan's, and when I tested one a few weeks ago I was told by the Nissan rep that if it's driven gently, it can manage 110 whilst neglecting to tell me that if driven at motorway speeds that may drop to as little as 67.
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I have noticed with new cars here, that the EPA fuel economy window stickers also include how much better MPG you could achieve if driven carefully. IIRC the EPA purposefully lowers their fuel economy results in order to be more realistic for real world driving.


But anyway, I think this is a waste of time by Nissan. The episode really wasn't about the Leaf being short on range and a pain in the arse to recharge, it was about EV's in general. Although I do think it's sad that the show can't just be honest about these things, especially since the segment in question wasn't about entertainment, but was rather informative and consumer oriented, for once.
 
Well, there's a surprise. Nissan's Communications Director, Tom Barnard, has written a blog about the press coverage of the EV feature. He's a bit pissed off, but not with the people you might think...

http://www.nissaninsider.co.uk/nissan-press-officer-on-tweaking-clarksons-tail/

The most interesting quote, and the one that sums up Nissan's stance?

The truth is that we did say the LEAF feature contained inaccuracies ? but they concerned their conversation about battery life. The presenters? suggestion that the battery would be scrap after three years is plain wrong. Other than that part we actually quite liked it. They said lots of good things about the LEAF.

But other media ? who love to hate Top Gear it seems ? leapt on this and said we had been moaning about the whole feature. Then other media did a cut-and-paste with the inevitable Chinese whisper effect.
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It rather explains my bafflement at why anyone would be that annoyed about what was essentially a good review!
 
You know the best way to settle this? Next year, a special Top Gear challenge: Crossing Denmark.

Hammond to drive: an electric Renault with swappable battery, first battery fully charged.

May to drive: Nissan Leaf, fully charged.

Clarkson to drive: Kia Cee'd (aka RPC), starting with half-tank of fuel; at fuel stops can only buy 20 euros' worth.

Objective: To see if the battery-swap network now being set up in Denmark can effectively increase an electric car's range to the point where it's equal to a conventionally-fuelled car.

Winning condition: Electric cars must arrive at finishing point no more than 30 minutes behind Kia; car with shortest time declared "best electric".

That should be fair to everyone, yes?
 
Thread title should be "Publication with Agenda claims Someone Else was Upset based on Hearsay, Conjecture or a Misquoted Soundbite." but then that goes for just about every post show article printed about the show.

Actually that's not a bad idea for a thread just to keep all the Daily Fail and similar reports in one place........
 
MWF said:
Thread title should be "Publication with Agenda claims Someone Else was Upset based on Hearsay, Conjecture or a Misquoted Soundbite." but then that goes for just about every post show article printed about the show.

Actually that's not a bad idea for a thread just to keep all the Daily Fail and similar reports in one place........
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You forgot Taken Out Of Context ;) :p

It is a really good idea though - somewhere to round up these articles and burn them treat them appropriately... *g*
 
TopGearNorthAmerica said:
You know the best way to settle this? Next year, a special Top Gear challenge: Crossing Denmark.

Hammond to drive: an electric Renault with swappable battery, first battery fully charged.

May to drive: Nissan Leaf, fully charged.

Clarkson to drive: Kia Cee'd (aka RPC), starting with half-tank of fuel; at fuel stops can only buy 20 euros' worth.

Objective: To see if the battery-swap network now being set up in Denmark can effectively increase an electric car's range to the point where it's equal to a conventionally-fuelled car.

Winning condition: Electric cars must arrive at finishing point no more than 30 minutes behind Kia; car with shortest time declared "best electric".

That should be fair to everyone, yes?
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Sounds good, but stipulating half a tank for the ICE car and no more than 20 euro a fill up won't really prove anything will it. If you are going to show the other two machines in their best light, why not the ICE car as well? I see that by stipulating those limits you are kind of bringing the ICE down the EV level. But really thats not a realistic test... no one I know sets off on a big trip with half a tank and then only fills up with ?20 at a time. Its more like start full -> fuel light -> fuel station -> brim it -> continue.

It would be a non-contest of course and so we are left with either a non contest or an artificial result.... so why not just scrap the ICE car altogether and just focus on the EV's? or perhaps state that you have to use bio-diesel or LPG instead. A kind of alternative fuel face off.
 
GraemeH said:
If I were Nissan I'd keep this quiet - the negative publicity caused by more people learning that their driving is being spied on would overhaul the positive publicity of proving Top Gear fixed to run out.
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I'm working on a conspiracy theory. Does this monitoring technology exist in all Nissan Leafs (Nissan Leaves??) sold to the public? Or is it just for vehicles loaned out for testing?

Anyone know?
 
CarWings (and therefore monitoring) is in all Leaf cars. It caused a minor stir when it came out.
 
TomCat said:
I have noticed with new cars here, that the EPA fuel economy window stickers also include how much better MPG you could achieve if driven carefully. IIRC the EPA purposefully lowers their fuel economy results in order to be more realistic for real world driving.
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That's because they are done in a Lab, on a rolling road. that kind of test doesn't account for wind resistance or usual annoying things that happen on the road (pedestrians, road works, slow drivers, traffic jams, etc).
 
The Ratling said:
Could the heat itself be messing with the battery's efficiency? Makes me wonder if the reverse would be true, and in northern states' winter seasons, electric cars would be able to eek out extra mileage from the environment's chill.
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Cold is just as bad or worse than hot for batteries. I'm in Ohio and winter cold can really screw with battery powered devices. I once left my Zune in my truck and had trouble getting it to start up in the cold. I'm sure these cars are a bit more robust, but similar idea.
 
Aussie Muscle said:
That's because they are done in a Lab, on a rolling road. that kind of test doesn't account for wind resistance or usual annoying things that happen on the road (pedestrians, road works, slow drivers, traffic jams, etc).
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Lab tests such as the NEDC do account for wind resistance. How else would it be possible to match the numbers in reality?

My observations tell me slow drivers improve my efficiency :lol: if everyone is doing only 130 I can't go quicker, hence am forced to save fuel.
 
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Amie8 said:
I'm working on a conspiracy theory. Does this monitoring technology exist in all Nissan Leafs (Nissan Leaves??) sold to the public? Or is it just for vehicles loaned out for testing?

Anyone know?
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Yes, it's in all of them. The spin they put on it when I picked my test car up was that it would allow Leaf drivers to compare the performance they get with that of other drivers. It was all very jolly 'let's-form-a-global-community-of-Leaf-drivers' and it immediately made me very uncomfortable. What I suppose it really is, is a form of extended field testing. The truth is that while these cars have been in the pipeline for a while, until there's a relatively large-scale takeup of the technology, Nissan can only guess what the driver experience will be like in the Real World, so this monitoring technology will allow them to track the kind of distances people get out of a charge and how and where the cars are driven. It almost suggests that when you buy your very expensive and not wholly practical electric hatchback, you're doing Nissan's field testing for them - and paying rather a lot for the privilege. I kind of understand why it's there, but it was an idea I really didn't like, and I didn't think to ask if it could be turned off, because by the time I gave it back, I had enjoyed driving the bloody thing so much that I forgot about the very important real world negatives <_<
 
Wyvern said:
Yes, it's in all of them. The spin they put on it when I picked my test car up was that it would allow Leaf drivers to compare the performance they get with that of other drivers. It was all very jolly 'let's-form-a-global-community-of-Leaf-drivers' and it immediately made me very uncomfortable. What I suppose it really is, is a form of extended field testing. The truth is that while these cars have been in the pipeline for a while, until there's a relatively large-scale takeup of the technology, Nissan can only guess what the driver experience will be like in the Real World, so this monitoring technology will allow them to track the kind of distances people get out of a charge and how and where the cars are driven. It almost suggests that when you buy your very expensive and not wholly practical electric hatchback, you're doing Nissan's field testing for them - and paying rather a lot for the privilege. I kind of understand why it's there, but it was an idea I really didn't like, and I didn't think to ask if it could be turned off, because by the time I gave it back, I had enjoyed driving the bloody thing so much that I forgot about the very important real world negatives <_<
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Your conspiracy theory is more charitable than mine, Wyvern. One of the commenters on the Guardian piece pointed out that the Nissan batteries are guaranteed for 8 years or 100,000 miles, which sounds great. If it does pack up after only five or three, as TG suggested, you get a new one free.

My guess is that the monitoring data will be used to invalidate the guarantee. There must be a bunch of small print somewhere about getting optimum performance from the battery, and if Nissan can prove you haven't stuck to it to the letter, bang goes your free battery.

Cynix R Us
 
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