Laud the Americans

[KIJIMA]

Just a quick question, (and I refuse to google this so as to remain impartial) but who makes the Black Hawk Helicopters that seem to always be falling out of the sky?

I hope its not Australia, as these military vehicles seem to be allergic to flight.

 

[jetsetter]

Just a quick question, (and I refuse to google this so as to remain impartial) but who makes the Black Hawk Helicopters that seem to always be falling out of the sky?

I hope its not Australia, as these military vehicles seem to be allergic to flight.

Please don't be stupid. Helicopters have traditionally not done well in urban combat due to the fact that they usually need to fly low and that leaves them susceptible to ground fire. You also should know that you can't really armour a troop transport like the Black Hawk to any large extent, weight is a serious issue. It is not a flaw in the design of the helicopter but the nature of helicopters themselves. Feel free to look this up.

 

[jeffy777]

I think it's time we laud the Norwegians. After all, we invented the spray can, the outboard engine for boats, the paper clip and a cheese slicing device. And these days, we make the missiles and missile launchers that protect New York. And I think a Norwegian made a canon that did a process that could make artificial stuff to put on the ground to make it grow better. (I can not for my life remember the word)

Hard core.

Hey: Get your own thread! 8) :lol:

Please don't be stupid. Helicopters have traditionally not done well in urban combat due to the fact that they usually need to fly low and that leaves them susceptible to ground fire. You also should know that you can't really armour a troop transport like the Black Hawk to any large extent, weight is a serious issue. It is not a flaw in the design of the helicopter but the nature of helicopters themselves. Feel free to look this up.

Good call. Black Hawks are troop transport helicopters. They aren't armored like an Apache or Cobra. And sometimes the best way to get troops into a hostile urban area is with a chopper, as risky as thay may be.

 

[wooflepoof]

I think it's time we laud the Norwegians. After all, we invented the spray can, the outboard engine for boats, the paper clip and a cheese slicing device. And these days, we make the missiles and missile launchers that protect New York. And I think a Norwegian made a canon that did a process that could make artificial stuff to put on the ground to make it grow better. (I can not for my life remember the word)

Hard core.

yea but those are like no brainer inventions that we couldnt be bothered with.

"well im busy inventing the TV so im sure in the meantime SOMEBODY will invent something that will make my sandwich making a little bit easier"

"Well yea we COULD make our own missile systems General, OOR get the 'wegies to do it and use the extra money to buy beer and order the premium package on sgt. meyers digital cable"

 

[Blind_Io]

Just a quick question, (and I refuse to google this so as to remain impartial) but who makes the Black Hawk Helicopters that seem to always be falling out of the sky?

I hope its not Australia, as these military vehicles seem to be allergic to flight.

The UH-60 competition was won by Sikorsky. The first Black Hawk was deployed in 1978 and replaced the UH-1. It has a four blade composite rotor and is capable of carrying 11 passengers - or the equivalent weight of a howitzer and a small amount of ammunition.

The UH-60 was designed to take crew survivability into consideration. It is more heavily armored than the old UH-1 it replaced. The UH-60 is an excellent helicopter, but the nature of its missions make it vulnerable to enemy fire. Also the conditions in Iraq are very hard on equipment, fine dust and sand that is kicked up with every landing or take off is sucked into the engines, pitting and eroding the compressor blades and other components.

The UH-60 is a great machine and has performed admirably. Variants fly in everything from polar conditions and ice storms in the Bering Sea to tropical storms and dry desert conditions. You will be hard pressed to find a more robust or reliable aircraft of this type.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/uh-60.htm

 

[jetsetter]

I think it's time we laud the Norwegians. After all, we invented the spray can, the outboard engine for boats, the paper clip and a cheese slicing device. And these days, we make the missiles and missile launchers that protect New York. And I think a Norwegian made a canon that did a process that could make artificial stuff to put on the ground to make it grow better. (I can not for my life remember the word)

Hard core.

The missile that is used in that system is the AIM-120, a US missile.

 

[swek]

While we're at it. How come that extremists in Iraq manage to shoot down Apache helicopters? Even if Iran supplied them with Russian weaponry it's old tech and shouldn't be a match, no?

 

[jetsetter]

While we're at it. How come that extremists in Iraq manage to shoot down Apache helicopters? Even if Iran supplied them with Russian weaponry it's old tech and shouldn't be a match, no?

The Apache is still a helicopter and that should be all the answer you need.

 

[superchevy]

let me tell you first hand, black hawks are AWESOME! find yourself a crazy ass pilot, and the ride is better than any roller coaster on the planet!

as for a black hawk or apache getting shot down like once every few months, so what? shit happens. they're not invincible. even the b-1 lancer and f-117 nighthawks have been shot down.

 

[nomix]

"Well yea we COULD make our own missile systems General, OOR get the 'wegies to do it and use the extra money to buy beer and order the premium package on sgt. meyers digital cable"

Really? We do make very good Ground to Air missiles. Jetsetter says they use an American system, so I must be thinking of something else, the only thing I know, is that you yanks think it's so good you do use it. So it should be good.

The Apache is still a helicopter and that should be all the answer you need.

After all, the Afghans did sometimes shoot down Hinds, and those were even more heavily armed. I am not talking about Stingers. Handguns and small cannons.

Anything can be shot down. If you put enough effort into it.

 

[Blind_Io]

nomix,

NATO shares lots of technology and the flow goes both ways. US developments get implemented by our allies and our allies frequently develop better systems than we have. I wonder if there are any books for the layman on cultural influences on military doctrine and technology in the western world, I think it would be very interesting.

 

[jetsetter]

says they use an American system, so I must be thinking of something else, the only thing I know, is that you yanks think it's so good you do use it. So it should be good.

No, you are thinking of the right system. The system itself is Norwegian but the missile used in that system is American.

NASAMS (Norwegian Advanced Surface to Air Missile System) is a distributed and networked medium range air-defence system. NASAMS was the first surface-based application for the AIM-120 AMRAAM, and the first surface-to-air missile system in the western world with active radar guidance.

Development
The Norwegian company Kongsberg Defence & Aerospace teamed up with Raytheon and initiated the NASAMS programme as a cooperative effort for the Royal Norwegian Air Force. The state-of-the-art network-centric air defence system NASAMS was declared fully operational capable in 1998, but had an initial operational capability as early as in 1994/95.

Until the late 1990s the RNoAF ground based air defence solution, also known as the Norwegian Solution (NORSOL) consisted of three different weapon systems; the 40mm Bofors L70 gun (controlled by the Oerlikon Contraves FCS2000 monopulse doppler tracking radar), the laser beam riding RBS 70 MANPADS system, and the NASAMS. All three systems were integrated through the ARCS via field wires and radio. The ARCS maintained connection to higher echelons and ensured protection of friendly aircraft while preventing over- and underkill for all subordinate weapon systems. NASAMS capabilities are enhanced by the system's networked and distributed nature.

The RNoAF together with KDA is currently running a mid-life update of the NASAMS, called NASAMS II, and the upgraded version will be handed over to RNoAF in mid 2006. The major difference the two versions will be the use of Link 16 on NASAMS II. Full operational capability (FOC) is expected in 2007. A version of NASAMS has been exported to Spain and the Netherlands. NASAMS II as used by the RNoAF has been ordered by the Netherlands.

Description
The system integrates US-built AN/TPQ-36A 3D radars and AIM-120 AMRAAM missiles with an indigenously developed BMC4I system called FDC, short for Fire Distribution Center. The FDC connected to a TPQ-36A radar forms an "Acquisition Radar and Control System" (ARCS).

White House defense
In 2006 the Norwegian magazine ?konomisk Rapport (Economic Report) revealed that several NASAMS were used to guard air space over Washington, D.C. during the 2005 presidential inauguration.[5] According to the report, the same NASAMS units has since been used to protect air space around the White House. The magazine had gotten access to the deal which mentioned specifically that the equipment be used for protection of the President in Washington. Director Tore Sannes of Kongsberg Defence & Aerospace refused to comment, other than acknowledging that they had made a weapon systems deal with U.S. military contractor Raytheon and the United States Air Force.

Although ?konomisk Rapport claimed to have revealed this in March 2006, the official webpages of the Royal Norwegian Air Force gave very clear hints about the event one year earlier?giving specific mention to the fact that the NASAMS had been used to protect Washington, D.C. during the recent presidential inauguration. The official site popped the lid on what had become a not so well kept secret.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASAMS

 

[un-dee]

While we're at it. How come that extremists in Iraq manage to shoot down Apache helicopters? Even if Iran supplied them with Russian weaponry it's old tech and shouldn't be a match, no?

Contrary to popular belief and movies, all of Americas equipment is destroyable like any other countries.

 

[Blind_Io]

Also, what doesn't make the news is when something is damaged by attack but still gets the crew home safely. Apaches have taken serious damage, loosing an engine or even the primary avionics and still flown back to base. Every machine has its limit, even ours.

 

[jeffy777]

Yeah, but we have Chuck Norris

 

[swek]

Contrary to popular belief and movies, all of Americas equipment is destroyable like any other countries.

Thanks for pointing that out cpt. obvious. So tell me what for are the flares, the countermeasures etc. for when it's oh so easy to down a heli?

Ah what the heck, I'll probably get bitched at again for not being a military expert. Sorry, I won't bother your expertness with my silly questions again.

 

[jetsetter]

Sorry, I won't bother your expertness with my silly questions again.

Thanks.

 

[Peter3hg]

I think it says something when this thread has more posts in a shorter time compared to the Flame the Yanks thread. Maybe everyone doesn't hate Americans as much as it seems.

 

[Blind_Io]

Thanks for pointing that out cpt. obvious. So tell me what for are the flares, the countermeasures etc. for when it's oh so easy to down a heli?

Ah what the heck, I'll probably get bitched at again for not being a military expert. Sorry, I won't bother your expertness with my silly questions again.

Flares, chaff and electronic/thermal countermeasures do wonders against guided missiles and radar controlled AAA, however the best tracking system in the world - and one that can't be fooled by flares - is the human eye. These helicopters fly very low to the ground, usually within range of small arms fire and RPGs. They put themselves in vulnerable positions in order to protect the guys on the ground.

Ever seen "Air America?" All it takes is a guy with an AK-47 and a "golden BB" that manages to bounce inside the armored cover of the jet intake, or strike a retaining pin on the collective. The chances of it happening are slim, but with all those bullets of various calibers and all those RPGs, it's just a matter of time before something hits a critical component.

 

[nomix]

I think it says something when this thread has more posts in a shorter time compared to the Flame the Yanks thread. Maybe everyone doesn't hate Americans as much as it seems.

Hating America is like hating emos. It's popular culture. But using too much time on that, seems vulgar. Very vulgar.

I don't hate America. I do hate the current administration, and their bullcrap, but that's another question. America-bashing is like blond-jokes, we don't believe Americans are that stupid, we just laugh of the stereotype.

Sure, there are bad aspects of American society, but there are good aspects too. Let's think, when was the last time you saw GOOD news on the news?