18T said:
I really just wish American manufacturers would make proper engines and cars. 5.7 V8 should be putting out at least 500HP.. at least.. and if its going to be expensive then dont put a 5.7 v8 in a car like that.. put a 3.6 that produces 320hp or something..
The problem there is, doing a "proper" engine means making the engine bigger and heavier, and more expensive, and less compact. The hp/liter on an LS engine may not be up to par with the europeans, but it's also far more compact, and less expensive to build. Remember this is GM we are talking about, not BMW, not Mercedes, they can't afford to redevelop an engine because they are bored (like they used to). And if they passed that kind of cost onto the customer, GM would have been out of business 10 years ago.
Honestly think about it, would you buy a (base, not the z06)Corvette that did everything it does now, but cost 15k more just so you can say "It's got DOHC, VVT and lift, makes 90-100hp/liter, hauls ass but it sucks down the gas" or would you rather say "my $45k Corvette has a 100k mile warranty, gets 27mpg at 80 on the highway, and will wipe the floor with damn
near anything under $100k?" This assuming you'd be willing to own a corvette. To add that kind of cost to a Camaro would mean the likely death of the Camaro.
And as far as the LS series engines go, I've yet to hear anyone complain about the engine other than it's power/liter. It doesn't run rough, it's lightweight, it's fuel efficient, friendly to the environment (well to the extend an engine of it's intent can be), it's got massive amounts of torque, always has potential locked up in it... and thats where I think the point of these engines are. GM doing get every last bit out of 'em for the sake of the hot rodders.
If you have a low attention span, please at least read whats above this point. I know my posts tend to get a bit long.
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One thing I've noticed with Euro engines vs American is, the Europeans do all the inexpensive things to get the power out of an engine, they optimize the headers and the intake, and what not. The American's use a bit more displacement, and run cheap exhaust parts, cam(s) tweaked for more torque and fuel economy, and leave it to the aftermarket to sell cheap parts to get loads of power out of their motors.
I always hear (and have seen plenty of times) how a cheap cam, or some rockers, headers, and an intake manifold can gain upteen billion hp on an LS engine. On a BMW engine, and I'm not talking about their M engines but their regular all arounder engines, you've gotta get the heads ported, larger valves installed, combustion chamber work, lightened (stroker)crank (from diesel)/rods/pistons, machined lifters to reduce pump up (and weight) and a custom cam. To get 200hp out of my brothers M42 318is is roughly $9000, and requires all those parts. But it's one hell of an engine.
Look at this thread alone and you can tell we here in the US, "I can get X amount of hp for Y amount of dollars" is a popular argument.
Oh and GM has made attempts in the past to make "proper" engines. Everytime it burned them. The Vega had a 2.3 liter aluminum 4 (with cast iron head
), they went to Cosworth and had a twin cam head built for it, and they shrunk it to 2.0L as well. The car cost double what the regular one did, and was only a $400 shy of a Corvette in price.
Later they did the Quad 4 HO, in 1988. 170hp from a 2.3L (in 3 years it would go upto 190hp). These numbers beat the US spec 190E-16 valve Cosworth by 5-25hp. GM was shit on for how rough the engine ran (no balance shafts in the original design).
Hell look at the new Turbo Ecotech. 260hp/260lb-ft from a 2.0. It's still getting bashed because of it's noise and seemingly unwillingness to rev.
They built the ZR-1 Corvette's. Lotus All-Aluminum designed SBC LT-5 with DOHC (and a crude form of Variable valve timing/lift/duration). The engine option double the cost of the regular one, and the engine was no lighter than the cast iron LT-1/LT-4. In 1996 the LT-5 had 405 hp. The LS1 had 350hp when it came out, and in the z06 was doing 385 and a year alter 405hp. And it was actually lighter this time than the cast iron engines. One note though, the LT-5 is one hell of an animal if you got the money to build it. A fully built n/a LT-5 in a full weight C4 can do 9's with slicks.
Basically my point being, If we try and match the Europeans using their idea's, we get burned. Do it our way, and the results are quite nice IMO.