Driving a Vehicle with a Manual Transmission

you should let go of the clutch pedal up to the point where it starts grabbing (very litle) and just hold it there until the engine and gear box are running at the same speed. thats when you can completely let go of the clutch and it wont make a difference.

remember that when you change gears, if you feel it, youre doing it wrong. doesnt matter if youre shitting at 2 or 7k rmps, if you feel it, youre doing it wrong. (should be done as fast as the rpms fall to the next gear point, if you take longer than that, youre doing it wrong :) )

downshifting should only be done with rev matching, (and double clutching if you care about your scyncros.)

dont practice tool/heeling with people in front of you

...but thats just common sense :)
 
Thanks for all the great replies, greatly appreciated.
 
DiuSee said:
Thanks for all the great replies, greatly appreciated.
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I kinda gave up on it for now. My driveway is on a crazy hill and I was told to drive the Sky into the garage...stalled twice and my dad was flipping out. He has no patience because the car is his baby, and honestly I do not want to learn how to drive a manual in a Sky. Not cool especially when you do something so little, (like slow upshift) that the owner of the car is pissed.

llpc60 said:
remember that when you change gears, if you feel it, youre doing it wrong. doesnt matter if youre shitting at 2 or 7k rmps, if you feel it, youre doing it wrong. (should be done as fast as the rpms fall to the next gear point, if you take longer than that, youre doing it wrong :) )
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What do you mean, it should be done as fast as the rpms fall?

llpc60 said:
downshifting should only be done with rev matching, (and double clutching if you care about your scyncros.)
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Why only with rev matching, do you mean so the revs are low enough so the car will not jerk and give whiplash?
 
Nobody does that double-clutch stuff on upshifts, that's not nessessary in the age of synchonized gearboxes. My dad had to double-clutch while he was truck driver at the Bundeswehr (army), but that was in the late 60'. Nowadays you don't have to double-clutch on upshifts, nor apply throttle on downshifts, the synchros will synchonize the gears for you. Thats what they are for, and they can take some serious abuse without complaining. I don't know anyone whose synchros have worn out, they usually last as long as the car itself.

The only use of matching the RPM to the suitable speed on downshifts is for driving fast. When clutching to hard without matching the RPM while cornering at the limit, you might break the traction and spin, at least at lower gears. The drive shaft also suffer.

But in general you don't need to push the RPM while turning off at the traffic lights at 15 mph, we're talking about revolutions about 2000 RPM.

Now we are heading into that kind of discussion:

http://forums.finalgear.com/showthread.php?t=15626

Now back to topic: the conclusion of it all is practice and gain experience during the next months. You will manage it for sure. :)
 
NAIDANAC A said:
What do you mean, it should be done as fast as the rpms fall?
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it it falls too much, when you re-engage the clutch, it will have to bring revs up again. so you should shift at a speed that wont make the rpms go up or down after you engage the clutch

just as i said before, if the car jerks any tiny bit, your timing is wrong.

syncros dont last as long as the rest of the car. how many 90's cars have you driven with a 1st gear syncro good enough so you dont have to stop the car to engage 1st? exactly, not many. syncros are there so you dont NEED to double clutch/rev match on EVERY shift, as most peoples brain would explode if they tried. but helping them out makes your gearbox/engine and many other parts much happier.

if you dont believe in it (if you fail to see the facts) dont talk it down to other people, they just might want to learn it and take good care of their cars, AND learn track worthy shifting technics.
 
DiuSee said:
yes more horsepower... 3 more! but 4 days new (to me)
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My point was that after a while, you will be able to drive anything without even thinking about it.

Plus I'm at 140-145 HP. So I'm down 30 on you ;).
 
Mischief007 said:
My point was that after a while, you will be able to drive anything without even thinking about it.

Plus I'm at 140-145 HP. So I'm down 30 on you ;).
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Really? I read that you car is suppose to have 170bhp, or do you mean 140-145bhp right now, after all the wear and tear.
 
2.2 4 cylinder. The V6 had 170 hp but no manual.
 
How is that driving coming along?
 
Its getting there, most of the time I'm still putting too much revs in before the clutch engages. The other day it was really bad, I started to smell clutch... Like everyone else has said, practice practice practice. And tomorrow I get to put gas in my car for the first time :)
 
DiuSee said:
Its getting there, most of the time I'm still putting too much revs in before the clutch engages. The other day it was really bad, I started to smell clutch... Like everyone else has said, practice practice practice. And tomorrow I get to put gas in my car for the first time :)
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Good. You made mistakes and hopefully you will learn from it and therefore become a better manual driver :).
 
It's quite normal to adjust to the clutch, the right foot needs to be moved very slowly and controlled and if not used to it you don't have that much of a feel in it. You get there, I'm sure :)
 
I just feel very bad all the time when I do something wrong, I love my cars, and I hate like how it feels like I'm killing my car every time I do something wrong. But thats a good thing, to motivate me to drive better, but still feels so bad... :cry:
 
It does take some time to get used to driving a manual transmission but after some time, you start to do things without thinking.
On the other hand, switching from manual to automatic also needs time to get used to since these damn things never do what you want them to do. :p

The first driving lesson (manual transmission is standard in driving schools here) usually starts on an empty parking site. The first thing you learn is how to get the car going without giving ANY throttle at all. The first thing that happens is, of course, that you stall the car. A lot. ;)

Get the car rolling (slowly) so that you can take your foot off the clutch pedal. Don't touch the throttle at all. Repeat that several times. It will give you a good feeling for the clutch. After that, repeat while giving a bit of throttle (not much, a few hundred revs over idle will do). Try to find the balance between clutching-speed and engine revs.

Furthermore, forget about double-clutching and heel-toe. Double-clutching isn't necessary with a syncronized gearbox and heel-toe is a thing you would normally do on a race-track. Of course, you can learn these things (doesn't hurt) but they are not essential and 99.9% of all manual transmission drivers don't even know about them. It's more important, not to rip hard on the shift knob (since that puts extra stress on the sycros). Smoothness is the key, not force.

Get to a level where you don't have to think about it anymore. In short: Drive, drive, drive. And yes, stalling the engine at a traffic light is embarrassing but it's part of the learning process.

And remember not to leave your foot on the clutch pedal after changing gears.


Fiete said:
The TDI doesn't give you the chance to react, it doesn't rumble, it doesn't cough, it just makes a *plop*-noise and stands still.
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I noticed this mainly on VW clutches, mostly Golf TDIs, so it doesn't apply to all turbo-diesels. It doesn't seem to depend on the engine power either.

On the other hand: My first car (a small '94 nissan sunny hatchback ;) ) had a very sharp and somewhat strange clutch. As soon as you came to the sweet spot, the back pressure of the pedal became much stronger and *plop*. It was a good training, but in comparison, the clutches in most cars now appear a bit numb to me.

llpc60 said:
syncros dont last as long as the rest of the car. how many 90's cars have you driven with a 1st gear syncro good enough so you dont have to stop the car to engage 1st?
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Quite a lot. I've driven cars with more than 250.000kms on the clock and the syncros still worked pretty well. As said above, it's more important to shift smoothly without applying unnecessary force so the syncros can do what they are supposed to.

DiuSee said:
I just feel very bad all the time when I do something wrong, I love my cars, and I hate like how it feels like I'm killing my car every time I do something wrong. But thats a good thing, to motivate me to drive better, but still feels so bad... :cry:
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That's natural. But usually, cars are pretty tough in that respect. A driving school car gets stalled and abused all day long and doesn't break. But if you already smelled clutch then I would suggest you should try clutching a bit faster and at lower revs. Try to find the balance.
 
DiuSee,

One of the most important things I learned is if you stop on a slight incline you can do the following and it will help a lot:

Right as the light is changing, be in 1st gear, and as you are taking your foot off the brake, let the clutch out some (enough to make some friction but not enough to stall). It will keep the car from rolling (and if you are on a flat road - get you going) and then apply the gas.

My mate taught me how to drive a stick in two days in his '90 corrolla. Learning how to do this stopped me from lighting up his tires in inclined intersections (which he would laugh about for 10 blocks afterwards).

Once you get the hang of normal driving, you can experiment with downshifting. Learning how to rev-match when down shifting is fun and helpful. You'll then be able to give friends a good-time ride.

Keep at it! Like everyone else has said - PRACTICE...
He taught me for two days and I bought my first car 3 years later. I've only stalled the stang 4 times since I bought it....

Practice a lot, but have fun doing it. Once you get it down 90% you will love it more and gain more experience just because you feel involved. Then wait for a nice day outside!!!
 
I've been practicing, and I've been loving the drive. Although sometimes its quite scary, especially if the person behind you is tail gating you at the stop light on an incline backwards (which most people do (stupid ontarians)) Its been getting a lot better, but there isnt such thing as wheel spin on my car. AWD's dont spin their wheels, they go foward/backwards or break parts!!!
 
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