Environmentalist groups

My guesses are that :
1. You have to keep the plugs hot - uses electrical energy when in the electric cycle
2. Diesel engines are heavier
3. You have to use a hefty shove to start a diesel - diesel starter motors are strong
4. Is diesel fuel actually more dense so it weighs more for any given volume too?
5. The gain in MPG/KPL would be much less dramatic so no demand. ...

Anyhoo - AFAIK no Diesel Hybreds
 
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It's a cycle between warming and cooling... and the environMENTALists (after what I read here I'll keep writing it like that) don't seem to grasp the cyclic nature of our climate due to minor shifts in the orbit, things like precession and the Sun's spot cycle. The 26 thousand year precession phenomenon should be an explanation for the major Ice Ages, because the Earth's axis rotates, forming two virtual cones coming out of the center of the Earth; it shifts the equinoxes on the ecliptic, shifting the seasons; and an Ice Age in the northern hemisphere could be when the aphelion of the orbit coincides with the winter solstices, while it's currently the other way around.

And also it's related to the Sun's activity; recently, the solar cycles have been rather more powerful, so more hydrogen is being fused into helium, so the Sun burns more brightly. But it's a cycle, so during our lifetimes it should decrease its activity back to normal, even though the fusion process will be accelerated very very slowly over time until the Sun's death.
 
Cobol74 said:
My guesses are that :
1. You have to keep the plugs hot - uses electrical energy when in the electric cycle
2. Diesel engines are heavier
3. You have to use a hefty shove to start a diesel - diesel starter motors are strong
4. Is diesel fuel actually more dense so it weighs more for any given volume too?
5. The gain in MPG/KPL would be much less dramatic so no demand. ...

Anyhoo - AFAIK no Diesel Hybreds
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1. Can't deny that, but that also depends on how long the diesel goes without running.

2. But can be made smaller and tuned for a narrower power range than a non-hybrid setup.

3. The electric motors in a hybrid can drive a car, they can turn over a diesel engine. To save fuel on the prius as well as the insight, when the engine needs restarting the electric motor brings the engine up to full idle speed before it fires the injector.

4. But diesel has more energy per given amount, it may not balance out but it should be fairly close.

5. VW is working on a Diesel hybrid, Locomotives in the US use diesel electric drivetrains (though no batteries), some Cruise ships have one as well.

GM's concept for the Chevy Volt claimed the European version, if built, would have been a Diesel generator rather than a gas/e85 generator. The Volt is/was getting a 3 cylinder version of the Ecotec for the US, I would think a similar idea could be done for a diesel generator to build a diesel volt. With the engine only needed to run in an extremely narrow RPM range, and output much less peak power than a normal street driven engine it could be made smaller and lighter than normal. This is why I'm such a fan of the series hybrid design (like the volt), which some of you people laughed at me for when I suggested it.
 
Cobol74 said:
2. Diesel engines are heavier
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Ah, but they make more torque per unit capacity than their petrol brethren, which helps with acceleration. As per below, if you compare the smallest petrol and diesel engines available for a VW Golf, the diesel is faster and more economical.

Since performance is not the goal of this engine, you could afford to make it smaller in your quest for economy.

Another thing is that some manufacturers have now released all-alloy diesel engines (they've traditionally been cast iron, for strength). With all-alloy, a diesel engine would probably weigh almost the same as a comparable petrol engine for the same displacement / size.

Cobol74 said:
4. Is diesel fuel actually more dense so it weighs more for any given volume too?
5. The gain in MPG/KPL would be much less dramatic so no demand. ...
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.if you compare a car with a petrol and a diesel variant the latter is inevitably more fuel efficient despite having a greater weight from the engine and the fuel.

To save weight, given its obvious economy benefits, you could even fit your hybrid diesel with a smaller fuel tank. Give the two cars an equal range, and the diesel will carry far less fuel. This will save weight, and provide more space.

The best comparison for me is the VW Golf, since it comes in a range of petrol and diesel engines. I'll take the values from the auto cars, since hybrids have to be auto. Note that the diesel is a DSG, which weighs more than the conventional auto in the petrol car. Both have an equal number of gears, though.

The entry model petrol is 1.6L with 75kW and 148Nm. The entry model turbo diesel is 1.9L with 77kW and 250Nm. The petrol weighs 1285kg and the diesel weighs 1365kg The petrol's economy is 8.3L/100km, and the diesel's is 5.8L/100km.

The diesel has a 0-62mph time of 11.5s whereas the petrol needs 12.5s, which is an age when it comes to such short-run acceleration.

The diesel, despite the weight handicap, is actually 30% more economical than the petrol while still being faster. I'd hardly say that wasn't dramatic.

Make the fuel tank 30% smaller to have an equal range and you'd save weight, improving economy and performance even further.

To have the cars equal in performance you could also reduce the capacity of the engine and therefore its size (as per Point 2), which would give you the twofold economy gain of lower displacement and reduced weight (which would then give you "free" economy and performance gains again).
 
thedguy said:
This is why I'm such a fan of the series hybrid design (like the volt), which some of you people laughed at me for when I suggested it.
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I wondered why they didn't build the Prius that way; it just makes sense. At least it always has to me. It's a simpler system, at least in theory, and more effective.

The construction company I used to work for had a large diesel generator that was used for larger job sites and got downright insane hours per gallon. IIRC, it was a 4 cylinder Isuzu NA diesel coupled to a 3 phase generator. I don't think we ever even kicked it into its 3rd phase :lol:. We always wondered what something like that would be capable of in a car. Maybe within the next few years we'll find out.
 
Speak of the devil:

...Golf hatch that returns a remarkable 69.2mpg fuel consumption rating and emits just 89g of CO2 per km.

The car is almost production ready but according to VW it?s still a concept and there are still a number of other upcoming concept versions before the concept finally goes on sale.
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Source: Motor Authority
 
I thought it was unpopular because the Insight was a two seat coupe where the current Prius is a proper 5 door hatch.
 
sonza68 said:
I thought it was unpopular because the Insight was a two seat coupe where the current Prius is a proper 5 door hatch.
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Now that thing would make a proper speed demon if you added a nice engine and rwd. Wonder what those go for now.

*****

Edit: Just saw a few Insight's for around $5,000, and I saw a K20a swap and dam MPG and Speed how can you go wrong? :p
 
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I agree with most all of whats been posted, but with that said (and my limited time) i would like to make one or two quick points.

Catalytic Converters-USE THEM, i am no environmentalists but the effects of carbon monoxide are 100x worse then any real effects of CO2, similar goes for the other emissions sulfer, hydrocarbon, Nitrous etc. It has been pretty well documented just how much cats can actually help air quality. I will admit i'm a bit hypocritical as I have driven cars without cats before, but that has more to do with being poor then anything else.

With that in mind California has the stupidest rules surrounding cars and the environment. 2 come to mind.

1. Even if a engine is much cleaner and more efficient (such as is the case with the late model Toyota 20v engines) the engine is NOT allowed nomatter what in a road-car unless it been sold stateside during its production run

2. Incentives to crush/destroy old cars for the Environment. Anybody who has read about GHG costs of producing new cars (Dguy has pointed it out before) will know just how bogus this is.
 
Ottobon said:
With that in mind California has the stupidest rules surrounding cars and the environment. 2 come to mind.

1. Even if a engine is much cleaner and more efficient (such as is the case with the late model Toyota 20v engines) the engine is NOT allowed nomatter what in a road-car unless it been sold stateside during its production run

2. Incentives to crush/destroy old cars for the Environment. Anybody who has read about GHG costs of producing new cars (Dguy has pointed it out before) will know just how bogus this is.
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Due to the way California's laws are written, to prevent tampering with functioning smog equipment, they've made it illegal to make an engine MORE efficient/environmentally friendly. Rather sad really.

BTW, #1 isn't entirely true. If you want to use a newer more efficient motor not sold in the US, you "merely" have to get it certified. That is cost prohibitive for 1 or 2 people to have done though. :(
 
I once told a female environmentalist that "I eat babies".


She (blond) believed me.
 
Anybody wonder why there aren't nearly as many diesel options available here in the States? I wouldn't mind getting a diesel car if it's more economical, and if I have another car that I can drive around if I want to have a good time. But I've noticed there aren't any diesel personal cars except for an occasional VW, BMW, or Mercedes from a few years back than there are elsewhere. And large pick-up trucks like the Dodge Ram and the Ford F series trucks.
 
The diesels of the 80's soured the US market to the idea of diesel cars. Snooty ass people thought they were "dirty", and didn't want to put up with the noise that those cars made. The image of these diesels has stayed attached to the word ever since, and it's been difficult for anything but trucks to stay on the market with a diesel.
 
Diesel cars won't successfully return to the US until the price of diesel becomes comparable to gasoline, either.
 
phuckingduck said:
The diesels of the 80's soured the US market to the idea of diesel cars. Snooty ass people thought they were "dirty", and didn't want to put up with the noise that those cars made.
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:cry:


78vwrabbitdiesel.jpg


101407vwrabbitcar.jpg


:love: my noisy, smelly, piece o' crap
 
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phuckingduck said:
The diesels of the 80's soured the US market to the idea of diesel cars. Snooty ass people thought they were "dirty", and didn't want to put up with the noise that those cars made. The image of these diesels has stayed attached to the word ever since, and it's been difficult for anything but trucks to stay on the market with a diesel.
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Don't forget the American attempt at diesels. A diesel Ford Escort (which only about 5 people on the planet knows exist in the US) and that god awful gas v8 converted to diesel use.
 
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