Which Mid-Size Super Saloon (Sedan) would you take

Which Mid-Size Super Saloon (Sedan) would you take


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    143
I voted RS6 but it would've been nice if the Jaguar XF-R had been included too.

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I wouldn't bet on the CTS-V being that cheap. The CTS isn't as much of a performance bargain as some expect it to be.
Price-wise, the base direct-injection CTS costs about 4 grand more than the base Infiniti G and 3 grand less than the base 335i sedan. In term of acceleration, it's .6 seconds slower to 60mph than the Infiniti and 1 second slower than the 335 sedan*. The CTS only barely beats out the BMW 328i sedan from 0-60, and the BMW is well below the CTS in both power and torque.

But the cost is the part that's interesting. I recently went to a dealership and most of the CTS available were the AWD+luxury packages ($45K) or the fully specced direct-injection models ($47K). That's quite a bit of money, for a comparison, the 335i sedan when fully specced (that includes crap like active steering and active cruise control) costs only $3K more.

The previous generation CTS and CTS-V had a price gap of ~$10K between the highest CTS and base CTS-V. And there seems to be more modifications between the new CTS and CTS-V, than between the previous ones. Chances are that you won't be able to get the new CTS-V for less than $60K. With some options it may get pretty expensive.

*times were taken from a C/D comparison

The CTS isn't a 3 series sized car, it's a 5 series competitor at least based on size. Comparing to the 3 series is therefor rather pointless.
 
I'd take the E63. The 6.3 V8 from AMG is probably one of the best engines in recent years, and I heard that it can go up to nearly 600bhp with very minor tuning. But I'd only take it if I were abroad, because around here, the Mercs are seen as the cars of the rich and uncultured Gypsies which make the rest of us look bad. Around here, I'd probably take the CTS-V, to stand out from the crowd; plus, I hear that the new one is a genuinely great car.
 
The CTS isn't a 3 series sized car, it's a 5 series competitor at least based on size. Comparing to the 3 series is therefor rather pointless.

It's true that the CTS is almost identical in length to the 5-series. But having sat in several CTS's and 3/5 series, the CTS felt like it was a lot closer in size to the 3 series on the inside. I don't know if it was just me or if that's what others think as well. I know for a fact that the CTS trunk is a bit larger than the 3-series and probably the same size as the 5-series. But I don't know if that's what the extra length was used for. So based on my unscientific interior space assessment and on price, the CTS seems like it is competing with the 3-series rather than the 5.
And I would say that people tend to compare cars within the same price range. So maybe instead of arguing in favor of the Cadillac by saying it's cheaper than the 5-series, what people are reasoning is that the CTS is the same price as the 3-series but is as physically large as the 5-series.

OR i could be completely wrong on both sides and the CTS is actually much larger on the inside than the 3-series and people are buying the CTS instead of the 5-series.
 
http://www.ljplus.ru/img3/q/u/que_mira/autowp.ru_bmw_e60_m5_7.jpg

[URL="http://image.automobilemag.com/f/car-ramblings-reviews/2007-mercedes-benz-e63-amg-performance-package/1079898+w550+cr1+re0+ar1/mercedes-benz-e63-amg-performance-package.jpg"][/URL]

http://www.rs6.pl/audi-rs6.jpg"][URL="http://www.rs6.pl/audi-rs6.jpg"]http://www.rs6.pl/audi-rs6.jpg[/URL]

[URL="http://www.channel4.com/4car/media/spyshots/C/03-large/Cadillac-CTS-V-Plus-01.jpg"]http://www.channel4.com/4car/media/spyshots/C/03-large/Cadillac-CTS-V-Plus-01.jpg[/URL]

Though between mercedes and bmw the choice is difficult for me bimmer... rear wheel drive, awesome engine... on looks thats not cool!!!

Wouldn't choose rs6 because it's front wheel drive and I'm sorry for cadillac but since I'm european I wouldn't never buy a american car!!! For me american cars have high consumption a don't use all the power that the engine are able to give!!!
 
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Wouldn't choose rs6 because it's front wheel drive and I'm sorry for cadillac but since I'm european I wouldn't never buy a american car!!! For me american cars have high consumption a don't use all the power that the engine are able to give!!!

You seem very agitated about this. Cool down.





Anyway --- my choice is an E63, because it looks like any other E-class (that's a plus) and has the best ride in class.

The rest, from the most to the least appealing:
CTS - exclusive, but shouty
M5 - excellent handling, but really fragile. Also, iDrive.
RS6 - rides like an Audi, I suppose?
 
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Wouldn't choose rs6 because it's front wheel drive and I'm sorry for cadillac but since I'm european I wouldn't never buy a american car!!! For me american cars have high consumption a don't use all the power that the engine are able to give!!!

So, apparently, you're also an idiot in addition to being a European?

In 2006 (which is the last year we have a good comparison for), these were the fuel consumption numbers:

2006 M5: 11mpg city, 17mpg highway.
2006 CTS-V: 14 city, 23 highway.

2006 M5: 14.1 tons of CO2 emitted per year.
2006 CTS-V: 10.8 tons of CO2 emitted per year.

Which is the inefficient car with high consumption again? Oh, that would be... the M5!

As for getting more power out of the engine... Let's see, BMW has a lot of F1 experience. Considering all the power enhancing tricks and hypertechnology they've put on that engine, shouldn't they be getting more out of a 5.0L **V-10** engine than that?

Compared to that, the only 1L larger Caddy V8 seems like a better idea. It's certainly cheaper to make, has less systems to break, and is simpler overall.

Which one is more disappointing in its power output, again?

You seem very agitated about this.

I think some European snob didn't bother looking at the numbers before he ran his mouth. :p

I have no problem with someone saying "I like X better just because." I have a real problem with someone saying "I like X better because of reason Y" and Y turns out to be something they pulled out of their rectum.

And before I get slammed for being "an ignorant Uhmerikun firster", take a good look at my signature. I don't actually own any American cars. Two out of my three come from Europe.

I mean, if he'd said something about "American cars are traditionally built like crap, so I'd avoid the CTS because of that," I'd have had to agree... but saying that the M5 is more efficient? Erm, no.
 
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I think some European snob didn't bother looking at the numbers before he ran his mouth. :p

I have no problem with someone saying "I like X better just because." I have a real problem with someone saying "I like X better because of reason Y" and Y turns out to be something they pulled out of their rectum.

And before I get slammed for being "an ignorant Uhmerikun firster", take a good look at my signature. I don't actually own any American cars. Two out of my three come from Europe.

I mean, if he'd said something about "American cars are traditionally built like crap, so I'd avoid the CTS because of that," I'd have had to agree... but saying that the M5 is more efficient? Erm, no.

You seem very agitated about this. Have you seen the car in that guy's signature? He probably wouldn't know a decent American car if it was shot out of a cannon into his medulla oblongata. ;)
 
The new CTS-V isn't out quite yet either, and that's not kept it out of here.

No, the XF is a 5-series/E-class competitor.

Yes but they've built a CTS-V, the XF-R is still a test mule, they have an engine that chucks out 500BHP+ that going in the XK and I would guess the XF-R. Don't write of Jaguar yet. also, why do you hate the new Jaguars? Is is because they don't look old-fashioned and traditionally "British"?
 
Yes but they've built a CTS-V, the XF-R is still a test mule, they have an engine that chucks out 500BHP+ that going in the XK and I would guess the XF-R. Don't write of Jaguar yet. also, why do you hate the new Jaguars? Is is because they don't look old-fashioned and traditionally "British"?

I don't like new Jag's because they're to hard to be German

M5 - excellent handling, but really fragile. Also, iDrive.

People still having a cry about iDrive, it's really not that bad anymore (yes when it debuted in the 7 series it was pretty awful but these days it's pretty good)
 
Though between mercedes and bmw the choice is difficult for me bimmer... rear wheel drive, awesome engine... on looks thats not cool!!!

Wouldn't choose rs6 because it's front wheel drive and I'm sorry for cadillac but since I'm european I wouldn't never buy a american car!!! For me american cars have high consumption a don't use all the power that the engine are able to give!!!

I'm sorry, but thats pretty f*cking stupid. The M5 may be normally aspirated and has 500HP which means it makes 100 horsepowerzzz per liter!!!!!!!!!!!! (yawn). People don't bother to notice that it only has 383 lbs ft of torque, which seems really weak compared to the CTS-V's 550 lbs ft of torque and 550HP. I can't wait to see if the XF's V8 is normally aspirated or supercharged.
 
Yes but they've built a CTS-V, the XF-R is still a test mule, they have an engine that chucks out 500BHP+ that going in the XK and I would guess the XF-R. Don't write of Jaguar yet. also, why do you hate the new Jaguars? Is is because they don't look old-fashioned and traditionally "British"?

Ah, the oft rumored 5.0L engine... Which may *never* appear.

As for why I dislike the Callum Jags, read this thread: http://forums.finalgear.com/automotive-news/jaguar-xf-outsells-whole-jag-brand-26438/
 
People still having a cry about iDrive, it's really not that bad anymore (yes when it debuted in the 7 series it was pretty awful but these days it's pretty good)

I suppose so, but I prefer having lots of buttons to browsing menus for stuff. I HATE browsing menus on portable devices.
 
Though between mercedes and bmw the choice is difficult for me bimmer... rear wheel drive, awesome engine... on looks thats not cool!!!

Wouldn't choose rs6 because it's front wheel drive and I'm sorry for cadillac but since I'm european I wouldn't never buy a american car!!! For me american cars have high consumption a don't use all the power that the engine are able to give!!!

:rofl: I need a good laugh. BTW, I thought the m5 couldn't use all the power it made, a Porsche with 2/3rds the power was able to out pace it.
 
:rofl: I need a good laugh. BTW, I thought the m5 couldn't use all the power it made, a Porsche with 2/3rds the power was able to out pace it.


not only that, he thinks the Audi is 100% FWD.

with 580 hp? :blink:
 
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