Season 5 - new car, new format...

[pdanev]

Since we have only 3 more races left from this season, let's talk about the next season. To be honest, and I think quite a few people will agree, this season sucks. For some reason it didn't work out, shit happens, let's finish it and make the next one better.

There are a few things that need to be changed.

1, Car

I really like the FOX, but I don't like racing it - if it makes any sense.
I enjoy most very close racing with few inches between the cars only, and for that FOX is not really good. Part of the problem is the sometimes weird downforce, when you suddenly get a bit close behind someone and you don't have any grip mid corner whatsoever and understeer or spin out of the track.

There are a few options.
- FWD GTRs
- GTRs (XRR/FZR/FXR), we can make something like a Touring Car Series
- FXO

We can also go back to rotate car classes and combos as well, but I'd prefer something new. Of course there are many other options, but let's narrow things down to those 3.

FWD GTRs - easy to drive, downforce not such a pain in the ass, only difficulty tire wear.

GTRs - a touring car like season would be nice, everyone could stick to one car only, combos would be such where all cars have very similar times and are equally competitive.

FXO - easy to handle, not so slow as GTI/GT, very good for close bumper to bumper racing, nice change from using slicks and downforce.

We had gti/gt, tbos, and rotating car class seasons, so imho we should go for something new and exciting, because sometimes I feel like I'm loosing interest in LFS a bit and that things are getting boring.

2, Race Format

We had this Q - 10min Sprint - 1h Feature format for ages, and sometimes I have the feeling that it's not working out so great. I don't really have any specific and worked out ideas about a new race format, but I know that this has got to be changed.

The only idea that I had was to have Q, and then 2x20min races, 2nd one in reverse order. But that's about it, I don't know how to go on about pit stops etc here, so it's just very raw idea. Main point behind it, instead of 1 very short and one very long race, to have to mid length races.

We can adopt something from real world, DTM, WTCC, FIA GT, whatever format, as long as we can make it work in LFS. So ideas here would be really really welcome, I don't follow any of the above series and I'm not 100% familiar with how exactly races are held, so help me out.

3, Full Grid

We need more racers, that always has been a problem. We can ask Al Payson if DSR/DRS(..?) wants to have a combined/merged racing season with us. Or any other team with about ~10ish players, as long as they are serious and clean racers.

As long as we agree and fix point 1 and 2, we can go and talk to another team, tell them here's how we race, what time we race, interested or not.

That's about it, discuss and bring some new ideas. But please narrow your ideas, don't just throw in random thoughts because we'll have a bowl of 100 vegetables and the soup from them won't be any good.

1 - Vote on something
2 - Give some suggestions
3 - Some other team you know that could be a candidate in question

Oh, and of course any other ideas comments etc are welcome, regarding how to make races more exciting and fun!

[mgkdk]

The main reason I've been MIA for the better part of this season is that I can't drive the stupid car properly so a change in car is a must for me to show up.

I think 2 shorter races are a good idea as I sometimes find myself sitting for 3 hrs in the same position, with practice, few small races, Q, sprint, feature and my back is killing me for the last half hour atleast, so it would be nice to have 2 mins to take a little walk
Maybe 30 mins would be better, as you have a chanse to catch up if something happens, and it would be closer to the 10 mins + 1 hr.

[pdanev]

My back is a wreck as well, already before the start of the feature race...

[GraemeH]

GTR's still wouldn't make for that much closer racing in our past experience (the slowest cars like the UF are the closest we've had). I also like the long race, it means that consistency becomes important.

If we had more racers we could do a class thing like GT racing, with more than one race in a race, but that would need 20+ players to make it worth while. Maybe if we get the other team, we could have half of each team in each class etc.

[prophet]

How about LRF class or LX4? Always great fun to drive, and also challenging

[matt2000]

i would personally love to see races with FWD cars, UF GTRs especially. with identical setups would be focussed more on skill, and would make for really close action. slower cars would mean less chance of major smashes putting people out of the race

[lnldrvr]

FWD GTRs would be my choice. Those two cars are fast enough so you don't get bored during long straights and they are pretty fun to drive in courses like South City. They have tire wear issues, so 2x20-30min races would be ideal for the cars...

[MXM]

Don't want GTRs right now, FWD GTRs are ok, but there are only 2 cars. Why not mix some FXO/GTT/RB4 there and maybe even RAC/FZ50 (cmon, every race we had with those was fun ) so it wouldn't be like this season, every race is the same..

I really don't like the idea of "chosing a car and sticking with it". I want total opposite of what we had now, more freedom for car choises. If only one class is allowed, any car from this class can be taken for each race separately.

Trying to get other team to join us is very welcome of course, but I have no ideas for new race format. 1h race has to go, but 20+20min is kinda short in total...

[geeman]

GTR class probably won't offer any closer racing than FOX has offered. They aren't very fun to drive either imo.
FWD GTRs and FXO wouldn't be my choices either since, I am not a fan of fwd racing. And especially FXO is an annoying car to drive, the fastest setups are unrealistic and the car handles in a weird way.
LRF class could be a good choice. They are challenging to drive, but they still could offer some close racing.

Choosing a one car from a class isn't a very good idea. They aren't balanced so a rotation system is a must. I don't mind if we end up choosing just one car for the whole season if it's a fun car to drive and race, but it may be easier to just choose a class and rotate cars.

The current race format is pretty good imo. 1h is about perfect, not too long not too short. Only thing I would like to change is to get rid of that mandatory pit stop. It usually just breaks down close racing. Also I think that many of us usually do the pit just because we have to (no fuel and no tyre changes), I know I do. Atleast if we decide to do shorter races, it should go.

In conclusion I would like to see LRF class racing with rotating cars in a 1h long races with no mandatory pit stops.

[ESPNSTI]

My personal preference is a wide open flowing track with GTRs (like Westhill with the FZR), but I think a lot of people don't like that.
I usually dislike anything FWD, especially the FWD GTRs, because of the handling and tire wear.

As for the race format, I like it the way it is now, other than the sprint race could be a bit longer and the feature a bit shorter.
I never seem to get a good start (maybe I'm too careful?), so I usually don't do well in sprint races.

Having said all this, I'm fine with anything we decide.

[MXM]

Originally Posted by ESPNSTI

As for the race format, I like it the way it is now, other than the sprint race could be a bit longer and the feature a bit shorter.

That is exactly the point. Making spring longer and feature shorter. Maybe so that both are same length?

[pdanev]

Boy this will be a hard choice again.

So far the votes are:

LRF - 2
FWD GTRs - 2
GTRs - 1
FXO - 0

Rotating car classes - 2

2x20-30min race - 3
Keep race format - 1

No pit stop - 1

I stroked out the options that are unlikely to be popular, just to narrow things down.

As for my vote, I also vote longer sprint shorter feature, so 2x20-30min race format which means 4 votes for that. I wouldn't like to rotate car classes, and I wouldn't vote for LRF. I'd therefore vote for either GTRs (if everyone picks one car from that class for entire season, combos will be such that all cars have same time) or if people don't like sticking to one car then FWD GTRs.

Ok, I looked at gtr times, the fz is most of the time about .5s-1s faster depending on length. So an option would be to strike fz out, everyone picks just between xrr and fxr. Some times for comparison:

BW
fxr 1:05:98
xr 1:05:80

SO Town
fxr 1:12:36
xrr 1:12:48

SO Long
fxr 1:29:33
xrr 1:29:62

FE Black
fxr 2:16:95
xrr 2:16:74

FE Gold
fxr 1:12:94
xrr 1:12:99

KY Nat
fxr 1:35:18
xrr 1:34:82

AS Club
fxr 57:88
xrr 57:90

The difference in these combos is never more than .36s, which under racing conditions is practically the same time.

Anyway, probably noone will like this idea... but still.

[burnsy]

^ i agree with everything you said pdanev, so count my vote with yours.

side note: SimFIA DTM is using FXRs and XRRs this season too, though i don't like when we race on the smaller tracks. too narrow.

[prophet]

Well if the decision is going to be GTR, then only FXR & XRR is the option, otherwise you could just do a FZR league

The thing with GTR cars is that, nowadays every 2nd league in LFS use GTR's, so IMO it's getting kinda boring. LRF class cars are nice and challenging, the best cars to develop your skills. But maybe it's just me...

[pdanev]

Ideally I'd prefer road cars as well, but we already did gti/gt and tbo combination last season, uf1 is way too slow. LRF I think is a bit like FOX, in a sense that they are fun to drive, but they are so twitchy and the setups are so odd sometimes, that you can't have very close racing. Of course what's been said earlier is true that GTRs don't give much closer racing either, but if I have to vote between LRF and GTRs then I'd vote for the latter.

Another possibility is to have TBOs e.g, and again pick combos where the difference between teh cars is no more then .3-.4seconds. But as I said, tbos were raced last season so I guess most people want something else. It's perfectly fine with me because I love those cars and I haven't been here last season.

Oh well, it's going to be a long discussion again without much result so lets hear the magic ideas and agree on something.

[Mischief007]

Well, I'm participating in the DTM which uses XFR and XRR cars. I'm in the LOTA league which uses the FOX car. I also race on the STCC servers because the TBO class is awesome especially when you are driving the GTT or RB4.

LRF cars for me would be sweet. Haven't had too much driving experience with those . If we make it 2 20 minute races or 30 minute races, then the point system would be fair . Maybe change the point system to a BTCC or A1GP feature race system.

A1GP is 10, 9, 8, 7, etc...
BTCC is 15, 12, 10, 8, etc...

Personally I prefer the A1GP point system.

GTRs would be fine with me. How about what prophet said, FZR only .

[burnsy]

Originally Posted by Mischief007

How about what prophet said, FZR only .

then i'd be out, as i just can't do the fzr. don't know why. probably need more practice, but if it's voted for, then it'd make me practice .

[geeman]

Originally Posted by Mischief007

GTRs would be fine with me. How about what prophet said, FZR only .

I would prefer XRR/FXR if we would race GTRs.

[matt2000]

i'm up for XRR/FXRs, as long as we get a choice for each race. don't think it would matter looking at the times on pdanev's post

[MXM]

Oh cmon, why do you need GTRs now? Leave it for season after that
Enough of slicks and downforce, road cars ftw!