Season 5 opinions + ideas season 6

[pdanev]

So what did you guys think about this season? New point system, new race format 2x30min etc?

I think it turned out to be quite a good season! The new point system made things really close, because if you made a small mistake and lost say 2-3positions it didn't penalize you that much.

I would like to change the fastest lap point awards though. I talked about this with Firefox a while ago, and he suggested that we award 1 point all together. E.g. take two fastest laps of everyone, and whoever has smallest total gets the 1 point. The way it is now most of times it was always 1 person who got fastest lap times in both races which meant 2 extra points. I think 1 extra point is enough.

I also like the 2x30min race format once without pit and once with. However, I'd like to make the pit stop to be done in a window. I don't like tbh early pits to avoid traffic. I like battles on the track and action, pitting early just kills this. I personally never did early pit stops to avoid traffic. Ok, its a different story if you get damaged, but otherwise I don't like the idea of pitting early. In STCC league e.g they had some sort of window, must pit after lap 10 or something like that (depending on race length), but they had it compulsory, so even if you get damage pit early you still need to make a stop after lap 10. I think a better way for this would be if you get considerable damage that it slows you down, you can pit early. Otherwise you must pit after say 30% or 40% of the race distance.

Also, I'd like pit stops to be a bit longer not just a stop and go. There is an option now in settings to set tire change to ALWAYS. I think we could enforce this, that in pit stop you must change tires. Of course if you need to pit another time you can still readjust this in F12 I believe. This compulsory tire change could also mean faster pace in one of the races as you wouldn't need to take care of tires much. And you will start with cold tires one more time during the race basically, which could lead to some interesting race development and excitement.

Now for the hard question, should we use the restriction/ballast? If so, how. I guess we could copy it from some real life racing, but I'm not very familiar with any ballast system tbh, so ideas would be welcome. There was quite a gap between the 1st two positions and the rest of the field, so with a good ballast system we could make things more interesting and reduce the gap in overall standings.

Finally, what do you guys think about car choice? I liked that we had some diversity this season with racing many cars, but if we use a ballast system we would need to stick to 1 or 2 classes only. I don't mind personally if we narrow down the range of cars used for next season, but then again, I don't mind if we keep using pretty much everything.

My personal favorite race this season was, surprisingly, the longest combo Aston GP with XFR/UFR. Wide track, long, no downforce but slicks + light cars = fast speed close door to door action. No tire issues as well, so overall that was my personal favorite race.

So for next season I definitely would like to see that combo again, and now with preload XFR/UFR should be much easier to handle. I miss the big GTRs too though, I want some FXR/XRR action again.

PS: Actually, now that I think about it, we could make an interesting combination of GTRs for example. Combine both GTR classes, with the bigger cars being restricted so that XFR/UFR have a chance. Anyway, this is just something that spontaneously popped into my head now, didn't give it much thought but just wanted to share.

Well, long post, please share your ideas and opinion. In short, I think it was a good season, and if we make some minor changes next season could be even better.

[Mischief007]

For weight balast, look into the BTCC and WTCC balast system, if they have it online. I haven't checked yet how they do it. Sticking to one set of cars would be good. I loved this race because of the XRT. I just really enjoy driving that car.

[MXM]

Not commenting on points mentioned here, yet, gotta think about about it.
Instead some of my thoughts.

I don't miss 1h races at all. I think 30min is great, it's not exhausting if you fall behind and are forced to race alone, but still has elements of enduro, like overheating tires etc. Of course the fuel load has lost it's meaning now, nobody fuels up at pits, everyone carries full load from beginning. I personally don't see this to be a problem, so whatever.

But although 2 x 30min is better than 1 x 1h, I really miss sprint races we used to have. We do race a bit during practice, but I want serious sprint races. So my idea was to bring them back, but make more of them, and possible shorter. Something like 3 x 10minutes or even 5 x 5minutes.

This also serves another purpose, as it's easier for new people to come and race if we have sprints. I'm sure some people don't come to race with us, because they see it as being too serious, or too much of a commitment. Remember how last seasons some people only stayed for sprint and left before long race? Well, there you go.

I'd even go as far as making separate championships for sprint races and enduro races, with points counted separately.
It would look something like this: we do our usual practice, then we have 3-5 short sprint races, then people who don't feel like doing enduro racing can leave, and we have qual and one longer race. Either 30mins like now, or 40. I guarantee that there will be people who will only come for sprints, however some of them might like it and stay for long race eventually
By counting points separately it doesn't create any pressure for staying for long races, and still keeps the competition going.

I understand that this creates more work behind the scene, for keeping scores and all, but I think we can cut this by not making stats for sprints for example, and pdanev can stop spending so much time on those posters And we keep our current skins, so he doesn't have this ritual of making new skins every week

Just throwing ideas

[pdanev]

I love the XRT too, shame it isn't competitive anymore. Now the RB4 has a clear advantage. Before it used to be RB4 = stable, easy to drive but paying the price of being a bit slower most of the time. But now that they slowed down the XRT I don't see any reason for taking it. Sure its more fun to drive, but it's not competitive when it comes to pace and tire wear.

Oh another thing I forgot to ask. Should we allow car reset or not. I think no is better, because it makes things more realistic. Sure it sucks when you roll it, got acquainted with that today, but it will make you be more careful.

[pdanev]

I'm a bit skeptical about MXM's idea. Mainly about the organizational & behind scenes part of it. Counting points 5times, fast forwarding 5 replays to get to results, also, keeping track of how many races we have done, time brakes in between races, then multiple races, then q, then longer race... I think it could be quite chaotic, and contrary to what he have stuck to in the past - KISS - keep it short & simple.

Oh, and posters. Yeah, that won't happen anymore next season. I will make one standard FG poster and just change date combo etc text on it. Now I need to make a lap, save replay, exit lfs, change my graphics ati settings to max, lfs, run replay, takes screens, change graphics back to normal, and make the actual poster in PS. Then once done, resize 3 times, post here, post on lfs.finalgear.com, post on lfs forum race calendar... it takes ages. The actual making of the poster is much shorter then all other activities combined.

[Mischief007]

Keep the "No reset allowed." Like I said, it just forces you to be so much more careful and you can't push over the limits.

[MXM]

Originally Posted by pdanev

KISS - keep it short & simple.

Actually it's "Keep It Simple, Stupid" But I don't see how it applies here. Unless your goal is to minimize work behind the scene, that is. The fact is however that only 6 people raced regularly (today was a welcome exception), and while you surely had some nice fighting on top, it's a bit lonely down here
At one point I was even thinking about quiting this LFS business altogether, because to make any reasonable competition, I'd have to train a lot more than 1.5-2h I did before the race so far, and it just was too much trouble. I know that being good at LFS requires a lot of work and dedication, and for me the way there is a bit too steep and not rewarding enough in our current situation, the gap is just huge.

But as more crowded races show, it can be fun even if you're not 0.5s behind WR. So getting bigger grid is always main goal as far as I can see, especially since 2 teams joined league didn't go anywhere...
Of course my suggestions may be far from perfect, but something needs to be done, no?

[ESPNSTI]

I thought this season was great, I liked the 2x30 minutes format, and I personally was happy to see the sprint race go.
I didn't quite like 2 points for fastest lap, since realistically, only two people have a shot at that.
I think that something like 1 point for the fastest lap of both races (like A1GP) would be better.
I also missed the weight penalty (like the passenger rule of two seasons ago), and I think it would be great if we could bring that back (in the form of ballast/restrictions).

Having a pit window is a good idea I think, but I think it would be ok to have an exception for heavy damage.

I don't quite like the mandatory tire change, as that's most beneficial to the fast guys.
Tire management is something I enjoy, and there were a few races this season where I was able to get close again to Pdanev and Firefox after they sprinted away with fresh rubber and consequently used them up.
If we have a mandatory tire change, there is no chance of that.

I don't like the no car reset. It's probably fine for people who are consistent, but it would seem a bit cruel to people who are already a bit slow and not so consistent.
I would guess that the faster people tend to be the more consistent ones and the slower the less consistent, so I would think it would only cause the difference in lap times to increase.
Besides, if you get an accident early in the race, then that's enormously aggravating, since your day is done, and it would only cause animosity amongst us if the accident wasn't your own fault.
If you need to use reset, you've had an accident and you have fallen behind anyway, so I would think that would be punishment enough.
I don't understand that they linked it to instantly getting new tires, the way it was wasn't a problem.
I think there should be a middle ground between "your day is done" and "look ma, I got free new tires!".

I'm not sure I like the sprint races idea.
The sprint race starts have always seemed like a bit of a "feeding frenzy" to me.
I have the impression that people are a bit less careful.
If we do have them, having a separate championship for them would be a good idea I think.
3 to 5 of them a weekend would seem like a bit much I think.
I liked the switch to 2x30 min races because you didn't have to have a sprint setup and an endurance setup anymore, which cut down on the practice time needed.
If we go back to having sprints, you'll undo that.
I do share MXM's concern though regarding the number of people present, but I'm not sure sprint races are the answer.

[pdanev]

Originally Posted by MXM

Actually it's "Keep It Simple, Stupid" ?

Originally Posted by wiki

Other versions of the phrase include "Keep It Simple & Stupid" (most recntly used in west-european literature), "Keep It Sweet & Simple," "Keep It Short & Simple," "Keep it Simple, Sweetheart," and "Keep it Simple, Sherlock.

ESPN - good point about the car reset. And indeed very stupid why you get a new set of tires.
Also, good point about the tire management too, that does benefit the faster people indeed, which is not good. I was thinking in terms more of increasing the pace of everyone, but your point makes much more sense.

And yes, we do lack people. What can I say, it always sucked after S1 demo days that we were down on people. I also prefer to see a crowded map, not just a few dots..

I can only see one solution to this, something which if I'm honest I'd hate to do. Make a thread on the lfs forum about our races. Now I only add the poster + info for our races to the race calendar thingy. If we make a long promotional thread etc, I'm sure we'd recruit a lot of attention. Why I never wanted to do this is because there are a lot of people that are not desirable. Of course generally everyone is welcome to race with us, but I don't like 13 year olds with 1337GTRtypeRnismo names to turn up for a chat session. I guess if we make a thread there saying this, we can attract some serious racers. Otherwise, I can't think of any other way to attract people. Generally speaking when it comes to our team and races I don't like much attention, I prefer a more limited amount of people that we know are good guys and racers.

And btw, I also like that now both races are same length which means we have to make only one setup, and that in turn greatly reduces preparation time.

[FireFox]

I really liked this season. The 1st race where a good indication how the tires would handle for the 2nd race. You could made some small changes so you would better in the 2nd race.
As for the new car reset option, I think we should allow it and I agree with ESPN his comment. If you crashed/rolled it you would have lost sooo much time that you are punished anyway. Especially with our racing quality/pace!
+ for 1 point for the fastest lap over both races.
extra-weight Yes. It will slow the fast guys down.
and for pdanev idea about fwd gtr and the GTR combined It needs some testing though, but it could be quit funny

[MXM]

Originally Posted by pdanev

I can only see one solution to this, something which if I'm honest I'd hate to do. Make a thread on the lfs forum about our races.

I'd prefer people from this forum to join us... But that's not an easy task...

[geeman]

Originally Posted by FireFox

As for the new car reset option, I think we should allow it and I agree with ESPN his comment. If you crashed/rolled it you would have lost sooo much time that you are punished anyway.

Noooooooo!!
Say no to arcade reset. Scawen added the repair + new tyres to the reset to make people use the no reset option. Sometimes you just have to shove people in the right direction, otherwise they will just take the easy way out.
Just drive more carefully. Do you really flip your car that often anyway? Sure, it might happen once or twice during a season, but isn't really that bad. We could also avoid some combos with high risk of flipping.

[pdanev]

Originally Posted by MXM

I'd prefer people from this forum to join us... But that's not an easy task...

So would I, but it's not an easy task indeed. I've sent in the past before season 2 or so countless pm's to everyone who ever said he liked lfs or joined our races, but noone ever showed up. Buba, Swek, Viper, Overheat, Renesis, Kip, and there were some others that raced once or twice but noone is active anymore in the LFS scene. The ones that are active are the 6-7 of us regular racers, and that post in & read the lfs section. So I don't know, unless you can convince people in IRC or so to come racing, I don't see where we could get more people from. But as I said, I completely agree and I'd also prefer local fg members to some strangers.

[burnsy]

i'd like to recommend an XFR/UFR season. i really enjoyed the races with these, wanted to do the LOTA micro gtr mini season, but didn't register in time. the current number and length of races i felt were nice, but wouldn't mind going back to sprint and feature racing. the weight ballasting system from wtcc might work (link), but might need testing before using it in the season.

79. Ballast weight handicaps will be applied as
follows:
a) A 10kg handicap weight will automatically be
allocated to each driver from the 1st Championship
event in which he takes part.
b) To all the drivers taking part in each Championship
race meeting, according to the sum of the points
obtained in the two races.
Weight handicaps are imposed according to the
following scale:
1st: +20kg
2nd: +15kg
3rd: +10kg
4th: +10kg
5th: +10kg
6th: + 5kg
7th: + 5kg
8th: + 5kg
9th: - 5 kg
10th etc.: - 10 kg
In the case of drivers having scored the same number
of points at the end of an Event, the highest handicap
fixed for the relevant positions will be applied to all;
i.e.: if two drivers are classified equal 2nd, they will be
given the 15 kg handicap weight for 2nd place, while
the 10 kg handicap weight for 3rd place will not be
awarded.
The maximum handicap weight imposed under 79 a)
and b) is set at +40 kg and the minimum is set at -10
kg.

the current points system is good, but here's an alternate in case we decide to use a different one for this season:
1st 20 points
2nd 16 points
3rd 13 points
4th 10 points
5th 8 points
6th 6 points
7th 4 points
8th 3 points
9th 2 points
10th 1 point

i'd also like to have more realism with different lighting/weather in the races, instead of clear sunny every time. however, if i'm the only one that wants that, it's ok

[MXM]

Originally Posted by burnsy

the current points system is good, but here's an alternate in case we decide to use a different one for this season:
1st 20 points
2nd 16 points
3rd 13 points
4th 10 points
5th 8 points
6th 6 points
7th 4 points
8th 3 points
9th 2 points
10th 1 point

Wouldn't that make point gaps even bigger? Also missing one race will be a disaster

[geeman]

Originally Posted by burnsy

i'd like to recommend an XFR/UFR season.

...

i'd also like to have more realism with different lighting/weather in the races, instead of clear sunny every time. however, if i'm the only one that wants that, it's ok

+1 for both.

[pdanev]

I'm also in for XFR/UFR season. However, I know that ESPN doesn't really like those cars, and some others are not big fans either.

Weather I'm fine with, although I'm not really a fan of wind since it kills my fps most of the time, but we can use it. When we make the schedule I will add 2 extra columns for day and wind then.