Season 5 opinions + ideas season 6

[FireFox]

Originally Posted by andyhui01

And with the no reset rule, may I ask, what happens if someone actually flips? Their race is over?

yes their race is over. The only way is to spectate which resets the amount of laps you have driven.

[MXM]

That will be pretty cruel if you want this season to be fwd gtr's only...

[geeman]

Originally Posted by MXM

That will be pretty cruel if you want this season to be fwd gtr's only...

It's still better than having a instant fix/new tyres.

[pdanev]

We can take relatively long tracks, and ones without high curbs. That way we can keep the tire heat problem to a minimum as tires will cool down on long straights, and we will minimize the chance of flipping by using tracks without high curbs.

Andy, LOL, you've been giving advice for the past 2 seasons, how about you do some racing instead of just talking?

[MXM]

Originally Posted by geeman

It's still better than having a instant fix/new tyres.

Complitely agree. It was just small rant against this new reset = new tires rule, and also against using GTR's for whole next season

[andyhui01]

^pete, haven't I only missed one season?
I don't know but its always so much shit happens in my first semester, more work, moving house and stuff that I always seem to miss races, but in the second semester (aug to oct), I usually have more time and attend almost every race. ... don;'t worry guy, as per tradition, my attendance for the second half of the year is usually good , and I just realized I haven't even got the update to the latest patch.

[MXM]

You missed the much-loved FOX season (that you proposed) as well So that makes 2 seasons. I don't remember if you raced much in our road-car season, I recall at least some races with you...

[andyhui01]

^thought that would have been fun because everyone loved FOX ... but I did have almost full attendence in the road-car season

[pdanev]

Time for a bump!

Just as a reminder, here's a summary of this thread so far:

- 1 point for fastest lap (take the fastest lap from 1st race and 2nd race for everyone, the one with the fastest added time gets one point)
- compulsory pit stop window (must pit between lap X and Y, unless you have heavy damage)
- keep 2x30min races
- allow car reset (if you flip it or land on your roof as a result of an accident, it already causes you a lot of time loss which is punishment enough, sure you get new tires, but that won't help you that much in catching up, + you will need to make a compulsory pitstop anyway)
- weather use (wind, cloudy etc, will be added onto schedule)

The only thing remaining to be decided is what cars to use. If we want to use a ballast system we need to stick to one, or two classes at most, otherwise it becomes too complicated. I got the impression that a ballast system is favored, so what car class should we use?
TBO, XFR/UFR...?

Definitely not BF1, FOX, F08, MRT5, UF1. LRF (lx, rac, fz) I think is also not that good to have for a whole season. So basically what is remaining is:
- GTI/GT
- TBO
- XFR/UFR
- GTRs

In previous discussions there were some concerns about GTRs, mainly regarding close racing, wings + slip stream issue. Another issue would be using always long tracks, which would require more practice and testing, something most of us don't really have time for. I like racing GTRs a lot, but the issue is to make races more competitive, and enjoyable without a whole week of practice. So I think we need something easier to handle, that people can jump into and complete a race while still being somewhat competitive. Hence, let's narrow it down to just 3 choices.

1. GTI/GT
2. TBO
3. XFR/UFR

So, everyone pick one. I'm going to vote for TBOs. Easy to drive, diverse FWD/RWD/AWD whatever floats your boat, good for close racing, not that slow as GTI/GT but easier to handle than UFR/XFR which hopefully will make more people join. Normally I think I'd go for XFR/UFR, but imo tbos are the most suitable for our situation. Either way, I'm fine with any of the 3 choices, so vote!

[MXM]

Originally Posted by pdanev

- allow car reset (if you flip it or land on your roof as a result of an accident, it already causes you a lot of time loss which is punishment enough, sure you get new tires, but that won't help you that much in catching up, + you will need to make a compulsory pitstop anyway)

Hmm.. when did we decide on this? What will stop you from slowing down and resetting your car to get new tires when old ones are gone? There's no need to crash for resetting, you know This is also something that can't be easily enforced or monitored.

[geeman]

Originally Posted by pdanev

- allow car reset (if you flip it or land on your roof as a result of an accident, it already causes you a lot of time loss which is punishment enough, sure you get new tires, but that won't help you that much in catching up, + you will need to make a compulsory pitstop anyway)

[pdanev]

Originally Posted by ESPNSTI

I don't like the no car reset. It's probably fine for people who are consistent, but it would seem a bit cruel to people who are already a bit slow and not so consistent.
I would guess that the faster people tend to be the more consistent ones and the slower the less consistent, so I would think it would only cause the difference in lap times to increase.
Besides, if you get an accident early in the race, then that's enormously aggravating, since your day is done, and it would only cause animosity amongst us if the accident wasn't your own fault.
If you need to use reset, you've had an accident and you have fallen behind anyway, so I would think that would be punishment enough.

Originally Posted by pdanev

ESPN - good point about the car reset.

Originally Posted by FireFox

As for the new car reset option, I think we should allow it and I agree with ESPN his comment. If you crashed/rolled it you would have lost sooo much time that you are punished anyway. Especially with our racing quality/pace!

MXM I think we're all grown up to not abuse the system and stop just for resetting.
Besides, if someone needs to rely on that for winning a race, then the person is not fast enough for winning anyway.

Look at it this way. A crash is most likely to occur in the begining. You're tires are still new then. Or, if you loose it midrace and flip, that's going to cost you at least 10seconds + you will need to do the compulsory pitstop anyway. So you are not really gaining much.

Well I don't know, I thought that the arguments for allowing reset make more sense. Sure, its not realistic, but we're are not after pursuing 100% reality here, we want to have a bit of fun too, so I think it's alright to cut some small corners. I think this noreset option is perfectly fine for serious leagues and competition. But we don't race just for winning, we race for having fun as well. I'm fine with things either way, I just thought allowing it makes more sense for us.

OT: MXM, what's with your msn, I don't see you online?

[MXM]

It's not always about winning. For some people it's never about winning

Nothing with MSN, I just wasn't online lately... be back soon.

[pdanev]

I see.

What I don't see is voting for which cars to use, so vote damn it!

[lnldrvr]

We should have both TBO and UFR/XFR next season, if not, either one is fine by me.

[geeman]

Originally Posted by pdanev

Well I don't know, I thought that the arguments for allowing reset make more sense. Sure, its not realistic, but we're are not after pursuing 100% reality here, we want to have a bit of fun too, so I think it's alright to cut some small corners. I think this noreset option is perfectly fine for serious leagues and competition. But we don't race just for winning, we race for having fun as well. I'm fine with things either way, I just thought allowing it makes more sense for us.

I am all about realism, that's precisesly the thing that makes LFS fun for me. Allowing what is basically cheating just for the small chance of someone flipping their car seems stupid to me. The fun is lost at the exact moment you or someone else resets (=cheats). Advantage or not, it's still unfair. What's point in it anyway if someone is significantly behind after the flip and they reset?, all they can do is hotlap anyway. The reset thing is so abusable too, what if your car gets damaged enough that it would seriously effect your racing, would the temptation to reset be too much. I doubt no one would notice anyway. The reset is only meant for beginner or practice servers, anything above that should have it off. It's not like we are total noobs and flip all the time and we are not going to die from the frustration if once in a season your race ends prematurely.

It should also make the races better when people won't take unnecessary risks because there isn't a easy, magic way out of everything. Especially now with the fixreset it could encourage everyone to push as hard as they can all the time since there is absutely no risk, infact you might even gain from it by getting new tyres and damage fixed.

[pdanev]

As I said earlier, either way is fine with me.

Also, again as I mentioned earlier, I'm fairly confident that none of us would abuse the reset. There are many other ways to "cheat" in lfs, knocking someone out, cutting some corners etc. Yet, for all the years that we're been racing now, all the way from early S1 days, I can't recall a single person acting unfair, or cheating in any way. Like MXM pointed out, its not all about winning. We race for fun, and stick to the rules. We fight on the track fair and square without dirty tricks. So in that respect, I can just repeat myself in saying that abuse of the reset function will not be an issue, damage and temptation here or there, we're all grown up people.

I think this is also visible from our main problem. How to make races closer and more packed with action. If it would be all about winning, then we wouldn't be looking for things to change and ways to improve our racing.

Oh well, I'm fine with things either way, but I personally would vote for allowing reset. If you are a serious racer, then you will not have to rely on this function, and if you do, then it will not be just for the sake of winning or taking advantage.

edit: added a pole, vote!
edit 2: we can also make a compromise, allow reset, and if it gets out of control or we're not happy, we can change things. It's not something that will influence the races greatly, so we can change it along the way.

[pdanev]

Seeing that 2 people voted for multiple car classes, I need suggestions on how to handle the ballast system. It's not the same penalty if you add 30kg a GTR or to an MRT. I mean if a car weighs 5tons and you add 50kg to it, relatively that's not that much of a penalty, whereas if a car weighs 100kg and you add 50kg to it, then thats 50% of its weight. Of course these are extreme examples, but I just wanted to illustrate the idea.

So... ideas please, how do we handle this?

[MXM]

I must've misunderstood the option. I don't want many classes in ONE race. But different races with different classes like we had before.