Season 5 opinions + ideas season 6

[MXM]

Ah ok, so penalty would be used regardless of the result of the vote

I think the simplest way is to calculate percents from the car's weight and add x% every time. I've no idea what x should be Just do some hotlaps and compare I guess..

[pdanev]

Yes that would work, but I think we should still use only the 3 classes in the vote, because otherwise it becomes extremely messy. Shitload of different weight tables etc for 20 or so cars. We have to keep it simple I think.

Also, I think we have to define our basis by default with +X kg, because e.g. what burnsy quoted here there are also -X kg values for people at the end of the grid. Since we cant make cars lighter the only way is to define a heavier base that everyone starts with, that way the ones with -X kg will be able to reduce things down to the basic weight of the car.

Oh, one more thing. Do we calculate new weights for the 2nd race on the go after 1st race, or do we fix a weight for the whole weekend? I think fixing the weight for the whole weekend is easier, otherwise again more complications.

[MXM]

Oh definitely. No changes between races, it will be a mess.

I don't think making a base-penalty is a good idea though. People coming late for the race or guest racers might forget to add it. And monitoring/reminding them is again too much trouble. I think it's enough to punish the front runners, it seemed to work with ESPN carrying that passanger for whole season

[pdanev]

Ok.

I started doing some calculations. In WTCC cars are between 1100-1200kg, which is pretty similar to the cars in LFS, except the GTI and XFR/UFR.

LFS Cars:
GTI 940 kg
GT 1167 kg
XRT 1224 kg
RB4 1236 kg
FXO 1128 kg
XFR 836 kg
UFR 600 kg

I think we can use it like this, basically combining championship points and finishing position.

1st: +20kg
2nd: +15kg
3rd: +10kg
4th: +10kg
5th: +10kg
6th: + 5kg
7th: + 5kg
8th: + 5kg

c) To all drivers having scored Championship points:
5 kg for every 10 points scored; i.e.: 0 kg from 0 to 9
points, 5 kg from 10 to 19 points, 10 kg from 20 to 29
points, etc.
This weight handicap is applied only when a driver
has collected a number of Championship points equal
to 10 or a multiple of 10.

Max is 60kg in total.

Now this becomes a terrible mess imo, there are shitload of things to be calculated and its chaotic if you ask me.

Meh, I don't know. I think we need something easy, cars with similar weights and make everything a fixed amount. I don't feel like making a zillion calculations now and having 20different tables with weight penalties based each car. And how the hell are we going to monitor this, who is going to look at what cars we're using, how did people do the last race then in overall points, calculate percentages, convert them to weights, look at all people's weight etc. It sure as hell aint gonna be me.

I vote for something much simpler.

[pdanev]

Ok, here is what I mean. Compare the system above, the two quotes against this:



For TBO class I used 1200kg.

I sure as hell am not going to be the one leading a thread about weight penalties for people, updating it every single race. Also, in case of GTI/GT and XFR/UFR people would need to pre-announce which car they will use so their weight can be calculated in time. Furthermore, I have no freaking clue how fair this is going to be or how well it will work with these percentages.

edit: I forgot to add the maximum weight penalty row at the end, updated table/image.

[ESPNSTI]

I'd say keep it much simpler than that:

- Don't bother with different weight penalties for different cars, just live with it affecting one car more than another.
- Only add weight penalties to the top 3 in points : 60kg, 30kg and 15kg.

I would favor something like that or a variation of it.

[pdanev]

That sounds doable.

Under that scenario we only need to do some short tests with 2-3people how the weights affect times, see if its too much or not enough.

[pdanev]

Alright, seems like a decision has to be made.

Multiple classes, meaning XFR/UFR and TBO, were the dominant choice. However there was a tie for weather to allow reset or not. Taking this into accounts from the other votes, more people wanted to NOT allow reset.

So this is it then, Multiple Classes with NO Reset. I'll fix up a schedule soon.

[MXM]

We can change our mind about reset when those XFR/UFR races come Will see...

[pdanev]

Alright, I chose mostly long and wide tracks, since the general consensus is those are better.



It would also be quite hard to flip on most of these combos, so I hope they're fine. What do you guys think, is it ok?

One more thing I think I mentioned but can't recall an agreement on. Pit window, meaning you have to pit between lap X and Y. With the exception of some accident and major damage. Do we want that, or should we just stick to a gentleman's agreement on not making very early pit stops just for the sake of avoiding traffic?

PS: Another option would be to have all TBO races 1st then XFR/UFR, or other way around. I made them mixed 1 tbo 1 xfr, couldn't care less which order they are in but someone might have a preference.

[ESPNSTI]

Originally Posted by pdanev

One more thing I think I mentioned but can't recall an agreement on. Pit window, meaning you have to pit between lap X and Y. With the exception of some accident and major damage. Do we want that, or should we just stick to a gentleman's agreement on not making very early pit stops just for the sake of avoiding traffic?

Ideally I'd prefer a clear rule on this rather than leaving it up to "not early" and "not late" in the race, however making that rule simple and manageable enough is probably not easy.

[pdanev]

The simple and manageable solution would be to add another 2 columns to the table, saying must do a pit stop after lap X and before lap Y. The simplest way to make this easy to implement is must pit no matter what. If you have an accident early in the race, and you pit before the window, you must then either do another lap or two to wait for the window or do a pit stop and then pit again in the window.

This would be fine for me, I saw some former STCC coverages and I found it rather nice and contributing to the race tension. Also, if we have no car reset, meaning you have to be careful not to flip, then it should be also a fairly easy task to avoid crashes that would total your car. With the regular small bumps and slight dent in the suspension, you can still easily race without loosing any time.

I find this window idea good because of the following. 1st, you must pit after lap X, which ensures that you are not pitting to avoid traffic, rather stay on the track and battle it out there. 2nd, you must pit before lap Y poses a bit of handicap for faster people, since they can not stay as longs as possible to increase their gap and come back into the lead after the pit. So overall I think it's quite a good thing to have, but if others don't like it, it's not like we can't race without it.

I would prefer to have a must pit window "no matter what", however I can also live with the idea of having a compromise under the form of allowing a pit under severe damage, or not implementing it at all. So let's hear the thoughts on this.

[MXM]

Pit window sounds good to me.

However I'm not sure what do you mean by:

Originally Posted by pdanev

however I can also live with the idea of having a compromise under the form of allowing a pit under severe damage

What is the problem in this situation? You still can pit whenever you want, but you also MUST pit in the specified window once.

Also because we have 2 races, we can experiment, with one race being must pit in window + no reset, and other more arcadish allowing reset and no mustpit.

[pdanev]

I mean that if you have severe damage, then you are kinda screwed and must pit early, not because you want to but because of you have to. You are pitting not to avoid traffic but simply to be able to continue to race. And the idea behind the pit window is to minimize early pitting avoiding traffic etc, win by battle on track rather then strategy. So under severe damage you would be exempted from another pit stop in the window, because you are screwed anyway.

But well once again, I think the simplest way is to have a window when you must pit no matter what, and period.

[epp_b]

Are the three slowest cars the only ones that we will be racing with?

[ESPNSTI]

Originally Posted by epp_b

Are the three slowest cars the only ones that we will be racing with?

No, the XFR/UFR are the front wheel drive race cars.
And TBO is the turbo class (XRT, RB4, FXO).

The slowest three would be UF1, XFG, XRG.

Don't let the slow cars fool you though, sure they are slow, but they tend to make for close racing and a lot of fun.

[epp_b]

Sorry, I mean three of the slowest cars

Do we never use the more race-bred cars?

[MXM]

We did whole season with formula v8, and regularly GTR races. However the most fun I had was with regular non-slick cars.

And how much more racebred do you need than XFR/UFR? Don't be fooled by front wheel drive, if anything, it will be harder to keep tires in temperature and therefore on the line in corners. Also some flipping is guaranteed and with our new no-reset rule (at least in some races?) it will be anything but easy.

[Mischief007]

^ exactly. I like the TBO class myself.