Sep 09 - FE Club - GTI/GT [SR:10-FR:70Laps]

Mischief007 · September 3rd, 2006, 04:40 AM

Yep. It's that time again images/smilies/thumbsup.gif

.

I can't wait, I've been practicing and with Pete gone for this season.... images/smilies/tongue.gif

.

Edit: Fixed...stupid me.

Edit FireFox:
WR times and replays + 1 Setup
GTI: 0:49:55 - replay
GT: 0:50:04 - replay - Setup

andyhui01 · September 3rd, 2006, 04:41 AM

was it yesterday?

Mischief007 · September 3rd, 2006, 04:45 AM

My fault Andy. Almost midnight here images/smilies/wink.gif

.

andyhui01 · September 3rd, 2006, 09:11 AM

g2 start practicing soon images/smilies/biggrin.gif

, I've just been playing citydriving or BLGP on FOX images/smilies/lol.gif

FireFox · September 3rd, 2006, 02:02 PM

^practice soon. 3 hours before the race? images/smilies/lol.gif

Mischief if you are doing very well you have to race with passengers... images/smilies/tongue.gif

We still have to make a agreement about how many passengers the winner will get. ect 2nd, 3rd. Because with my test there is a GAP of 2 seconds between a full car and a empty car.
I'm all in for close racing again images/smilies/smile.gif

MXM · September 3rd, 2006, 02:06 PM

Erm.. I thought we decided not to use handicap system?

FireFox · September 3rd, 2006, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MXM

Erm.. I thought we decided not to use handicap system?

http://forum.finalgear.com/viewtopic...=294604#294604
Well after my testing the discussing died images/smilies/sad.gif

andyhui01 · September 3rd, 2006, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireFox

^practice soon. 3 hours before the race? images/smilies/lol.gif

Mischief if you are doing very well you have to race with passengers... images/smilies/tongue.gif

We still have to make a agreement about how many passengers the winner will get. ect 2nd, 3rd. Because with my test there is a GAP of 2 seconds between a full car and a empty car.
I'm all in for close racing again images/smilies/smile.gif

be very surprised ff, I actually did about 5 laps today in the GT, can do about 54 on mouse (alot more room to improve), still too lazy to plug my wheel in images/smilies/biggrin.gif

.

FireFox · September 3rd, 2006, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyhui01

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireFox

^practice soon. 3 hours before the race? images/smilies/lol.gif

Mischief if you are doing very well you have to race with passengers... images/smilies/tongue.gif

We still have to make a agreement about how many passengers the winner will get. ect 2nd, 3rd. Because with my test there is a GAP of 2 seconds between a full car and a empty car.
I'm all in for close racing again images/smilies/smile.gif

be very surprised ff, I actually did about 5 laps today in the GT, can do about 54 on mouse (alot more room to improve), still too lazy to plug my wheel in images/smilies/biggrin.gif

.

I did my practice already million months ago, when testing with passengers... images/smilies/tongue.gif

only GTI though

MXM · September 3rd, 2006, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireFox

Quote:

Originally Posted by MXM

Erm.. I thought we decided not to use handicap system?

http://forum.finalgear.com/viewtopic...=294604#294604
Well after my testing the discussing died images/smilies/sad.gif

I'm talking about whole concept. There're too many complications. First of all you have to decide who gets handicapped and by how much. Since you can only put 1, 2 or 3 passengers it can't be finely tuned. So some will get handicapped more than they deserve and others less. Also people tend to get better after a while, so how we monitor that?

So IMHO it's just not worth it. How do you know if you got better if you overtake someone with 3 people inside? Should we re-evaluate handicap after every race based on finishing position? This brings the element of tactics, which is not good I think.

Or imagine 2 people with similar speed. After finishing first, one gets handicapped more than another, and that makes him slower and he comes 2nd next time. And situation is reversed. I don't see how is it good for competition images/smilies/mellow.gif

And then new people. We get new faces all the time, sometimes right before the race. How we deal with them?

And the last but not least, if I win, I wouldn't feel the satisfaction if other person was handicapped and I'm not.

FireFox · September 3rd, 2006, 03:58 PM

like mxm said on msn all previous GTI races where allot of fun and close racing.
With the passenger thing especially 3 passenger, it would be depressing for the overall leaders because they can't fight within the race itself but only the points in the overall results.
So instead of 3 passenger for the overall leader, just 1 passenger. That will slow him/her down a bit but not allot I think images/smilies/tongue.gif

Now i hope that i'm not too fast images/smilies/lol.gif

jayhawk · September 3rd, 2006, 06:05 PM

I was discussing this with FF today...here's an idea. For this upcoming race, there will be no penalties. Everyone is on a clean slate.We do qualifying and the race normally. Now, whoever wins the race overall, and not in qualifying, gets a weight penalty. Whomever comes in 2nd or third overall, and not in qualifying, gets no weight penalty. The reciepient of the weight penalty gets to put the weight anywhere they want to, which can be adventageous, depending on the vehicle and track configuration.. Besides, sanctioning bodies like FIA, FCO, IMSA, and SCCA also state the same. If the person who has the weight penalty comes in first again CONSECUTIVELY they are to retain that weight for the next race. If the person with the weight penalty comes in 2nd place, thay may remove the weight, and the person who wins must take on weight. The maxium penalty is one (1) passenger.

When we switch to TBO's, again everyone is to begin with a clean slate.

What do you think? I know I sould like I am commanding rules, but as Firefox said to me today, we cant decide on these rules 5 minutes before a race. We need to put them in writing right away. That way no one has to sweat the detail come next Saturday.

MXM · September 3rd, 2006, 06:39 PM

This system would be good if we had someone clearly faster than others. However this is not the case, look at last season stats. Yes, pdanev was winning a lot (and c.prophet and priitmek if they come back), but ESPN and FF are up there as well. Then comes the bigger gap and the rest of us. The system you're proposing penalizes one racer. So what good it will do? It could break the competitiveness in the top, but will NOT solve the lack of close racing in mid-grid. I just don't see the big advantage that would make it worth the hassle...

There's just no other solution but keeping practicing and trying to catch faster guys. Making cars artificially slower is just not good for racing imho.

I'm not complitely rejecting the idea, I'm just telling my doubts about it.

burnsy · September 3rd, 2006, 09:59 PM

i was going to suggest to implement a variation of wtcc weights with the passengers, but it wouldn't work like MXM has said.

andyhui01 · September 4th, 2006, 03:01 AM

although the weight thing will keep races fair, but as MXM said, the obvious fast ones like ESPN and co. don't win ALL the races. Like last season, Mischief clearly lead the AS club race but wasn't as competitive for the rest, then it would put a huge burden for him on the following race. (and also what happens to the winner of the last GTI race if TBO's start a clean sheet?)

Another thing I thought of is since these are the road car class, most of us will run the race with 1 tire change right? Maybe we could ask the race leader of the previous race and make them have a compulsory tire change (The time extended would be equal in all races as well.) Plus I assume that we trust each other enough that the race leader will do so, plus I think we can spot at the end of the race if the race leader had a tire change.

ESPNSTI · September 4th, 2006, 04:20 AM

Don't count on me being fast this season.
These cars and these types of tracks aren't my strong suit.
(And I'm not going to practice much.)
I'm fine with whatever handicap system we come up with as long as a clear decision is made.

FireFox · September 4th, 2006, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyhui01

although the weight thing will keep races fair, but as MXM said, the obvious fast ones like ESPN and co. don't win ALL the races. Like last season, Mischief clearly lead the AS club race but wasn't as competitive for the rest, then it would put a huge burden for him on the following race.

See and thats why i think the overall leader, number 1 in the championship should have max 1 passenger. If Mischief wins a race but he isn't 1st in the championship he hasn't have to race with passengers the next race.
The person who is 1st in the champ will drive slower with the passenger, so its harder for him to win races, and the championship will be more closer.
Close racing and a close championship images/smilies/tongue.gif

Just a quick question. How important is the championship for everyone?

mgkdk · September 4th, 2006, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireFox

Just a quick question. How important is the championship for everyone?

Well seeing as I'm crap, it's not that important, I just want to race for the fun of it images/smilies/tongue.gif

Oh, and I can't make it for this race, have a birthday to go to.

ESPNSTI · September 4th, 2006, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireFox

i think the overall leader, number 1 in the championship should have max 1 passenger. If Mischief wins a race but he isn't 1st in the championship he hasn't have to race with passengers the next race.
The person who is 1st in the champ will drive slower with the passenger, so its harder for him to win races, and the championship will be more closer.
Close racing and a close championship images/smilies/tongue.gif

I think a simple rule like that would work.
Only addition I'd like to see is perhaps to only have the points leader take 1 passenger if he/she is more than x points ahead of number 2 in points.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireFox

Just a quick question. How important is the championship for everyone?

I'm not going to jump off a cliff if I don't get it, but I am competitive ( / screwed up ) enough to get depressed for a few days if I don't do well in a race. images/smilies/sad.gif

tmbrudy · September 4th, 2006, 10:02 PM

I just got the game 2 days ago (finally upgraded from the demo) I might join you guys to see what the racing is like (albeit from the back of the pack i am sure) Dont worry though i will make sure to obey the flags.

September 3rd, 2006, 04:40 AM	#1
Mischief007 Joined: Dec 3rd, 2004 Last Online: Yesterday Location: London, Ontario, Canada Age: 27 Posts: 4,370 Car: 2004 GP GTP CompG LFS Status: Rep Power: 24	Sep 09 - FE Club - GTI/GT [SR:10-FR:70Laps] Yep. It's that time again . I can't wait, I've been practicing and with Pete gone for this season..... Edit: Fixed...stupid me. Edit FireFox: WR times and replays + 1 Setup GTI: 0:49:55 - replay GT: 0:50:04 - replay - Setup __________________ 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP CompG 66,750 km - 41,477 miles

September 3rd, 2006, 04:45 AM	#3
Mischief007 Joined: Dec 3rd, 2004 Last Online: Yesterday Location: London, Ontario, Canada Age: 27 Posts: 4,370 Car: 2004 GP GTP CompG LFS Status: Rep Power: 24	My fault Andy. Almost midnight here . __________________ 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP CompG 66,750 km - 41,477 miles

September 3rd, 2006, 09:11 AM	#4
andyhui01 Joined: Jun 4th, 2004 Last Online: November 27th, 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia Age: 20 Posts: 8,511 Car: 00' Subaru Forester GT LFS Status: Rep Power: 28	g2 start practicing soon , I've just been playing citydriving or BLGP on FOX __________________

September 3rd, 2006, 02:02 PM	#5
FireFox Not the Browser Joined: Feb 7th, 2005 Last Online: 01:35 PM Location: Dutchieland Age: 22 Posts: 1,206 Car: Sold Toyota Carina II. AC Cobra 427 dream LFS Status: Rep Power: 19	^practice soon. 3 hours before the race? Mischief if you are doing very well you have to race with passengers... We still have to make a agreement about how many passengers the winner will get. ect 2nd, 3rd. Because with my test there is a GAP of 2 seconds between a full car and a empty car. I'm all in for close racing again __________________ LFS - Team Finalgear

September 3rd, 2006, 03:58 PM	#11
FireFox Not the Browser Joined: Feb 7th, 2005 Last Online: 01:35 PM Location: Dutchieland Age: 22 Posts: 1,206 Car: Sold Toyota Carina II. AC Cobra 427 dream LFS Status: Rep Power: 19	like mxm said on msn all previous GTI races where allot of fun and close racing. With the passenger thing especially 3 passenger, it would be depressing for the overall leaders because they can't fight within the race itself but only the points in the overall results. So instead of 3 passenger for the overall leader, just 1 passenger. That will slow him/her down a bit but not allot I think Now i hope that i'm not too fast __________________ LFS - Team Finalgear

September 3rd, 2006, 04:41 AM	#2
andyhui01 Joined: Jun 4th, 2004 Last Online: November 27th, 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia Age: 20 Posts: 8,511 Car: 00' Subaru Forester GT LFS Status: Rep Power: 28	was it yesterday? __________________

September 3rd, 2006, 02:06 PM	#6
MXM old porsches do run! Joined: Jun 9th, 2004 Last Online: 08:00 PM Location: Finland Age: 26 Posts: 2,660 Car: Porsche 944 LFS Status: Rep Power: 32	Erm.. I thought we decided not to use handicap system?

September 3rd, 2006, 06:05 PM	#12
jayhawk Cigar Smoking Man Joined: Dec 11th, 2005 Last Online: 02:27 AM Location: A-Town, Illinois. Age: 33 Posts: 4,998 Car: MY07 G11 WRX-TR WRB. Rep Power: 86	I was discussing this with FF today...here's an idea. For this upcoming race, there will be no penalties. Everyone is on a clean slate.We do qualifying and the race normally. Now, whoever wins the race overall, and not in qualifying, gets a weight penalty. Whomever comes in 2nd or third overall, and not in qualifying, gets no weight penalty. The reciepient of the weight penalty gets to put the weight anywhere they want to, which can be adventageous, depending on the vehicle and track configuration.. Besides, sanctioning bodies like FIA, FCO, IMSA, and SCCA also state the same. If the person who has the weight penalty comes in first again CONSECUTIVELY they are to retain that weight for the next race. If the person with the weight penalty comes in 2nd place, thay may remove the weight, and the person who wins must take on weight. The maxium penalty is one (1) passenger. When we switch to TBO's, again everyone is to begin with a clean slate. What do you think? I know I sould like I am commanding rules, but as Firefox said to me today, we cant decide on these rules 5 minutes before a race. We need to put them in writing right away. That way no one has to sweat the detail come next Saturday. __________________ It is nice to have friends like you on this forum. ...A fox among the chickens... Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery None but ourselves can free our minds…

September 3rd, 2006, 06:39 PM	#13
MXM old porsches do run! Joined: Jun 9th, 2004 Last Online: 08:00 PM Location: Finland Age: 26 Posts: 2,660 Car: Porsche 944 LFS Status: Rep Power: 32	This system would be good if we had someone clearly faster than others. However this is not the case, look at last season stats. Yes, pdanev was winning a lot (and c.prophet and priitmek if they come back), but ESPN and FF are up there as well. Then comes the bigger gap and the rest of us. The system you're proposing penalizes one racer. So what good it will do? It could break the competitiveness in the top, but will NOT solve the lack of close racing in mid-grid. I just don't see the big advantage that would make it worth the hassle... There's just no other solution but keeping practicing and trying to catch faster guys. Making cars artificially slower is just not good for racing imho. I'm not complitely rejecting the idea, I'm just telling my doubts about it.

September 3rd, 2006, 09:59 PM	#14
burnsy Joined: Mar 25th, 2005 Last Online: 03:43 PM Location: Indiana, USA Age: 26 Posts: 643 Car: 2006 Ford Ranger FX4 LFS Status: Rep Power: 15	i was going to suggest to implement a variation of wtcc weights with the passengers, but it wouldn't work like MXM has said. __________________ Top Gear Episode Guide & More \| Top Gear DVDs \| Team FinalGear.com

September 4th, 2006, 03:01 AM	#15
andyhui01 Joined: Jun 4th, 2004 Last Online: November 27th, 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia Age: 20 Posts: 8,511 Car: 00' Subaru Forester GT LFS Status: Rep Power: 28	although the weight thing will keep races fair, but as MXM said, the obvious fast ones like ESPN and co. don't win ALL the races. Like last season, Mischief clearly lead the AS club race but wasn't as competitive for the rest, then it would put a huge burden for him on the following race. (and also what happens to the winner of the last GTI race if TBO's start a clean sheet?) Another thing I thought of is since these are the road car class, most of us will run the race with 1 tire change right? Maybe we could ask the race leader of the previous race and make them have a compulsory tire change (The time extended would be equal in all races as well.) Plus I assume that we trust each other enough that the race leader will do so, plus I think we can spot at the end of the race if the race leader had a tire change. __________________

September 4th, 2006, 04:20 AM	#16
ESPNSTI Your Guide to TG/FG Joined: Dec 9th, 2003 Last Online: Yesterday Location: Decorah, IA Age: 36 Posts: 4,297 Car: 2004 Subaru Impreza WRX STI (USDM) LFS Status: Rep Power: 35	Don't count on me being fast this season. These cars and these types of tracks aren't my strong suit. (And I'm not going to practice much.) I'm fine with whatever handicap system we come up with as long as a clear decision is made. __________________ Top Gear Episode Guide (Excel) \| Top Gear Episode Guide (HTML) \| Top Gear Classic Episode Guide (HTML) Other Top Gear Guides \| Fifth Gear Guides \| Clarkson's TV/Video List \| Tiff Needell's TV/Video List

September 4th, 2006, 10:02 PM	#20
tmbrudy Joined: Jun 7th, 2006 Last Online: Yesterday Location: Lafayette, LA Age: 23 Posts: 91 Car: Honda Element LFS Status: Rep Power: 11	I just got the game 2 days ago (finally upgraded from the demo) I might join you guys to see what the racing is like (albeit from the back of the pack i am sure) Dont worry though i will make sure to obey the flags.