R&T mag: 911 vs (USDM) GT-R vs Z06

[Leonidae]

go to wikipedia and check Steve Millens past. he was NOT sandbagging this. GT-R was just easier to drive fast than other two. you should also go to road and tracks forums and check out what one of the editors says about the run.

[monaroCountry]

Dont bother going to the Road&Track site for editor's comment. Here is what he said.

Originally Posted by Akira

http://forums.roadandtrack.com/cars/...&thread.id=138

From the editor of R&T

"Normally I would ignore this type of post, but since I know who you are I'll comment. Steve Millen did not sandbag. Steve has been a trusted friend of this magazine for years. The fact that he's won endurance races at Sebring, Daytona and LeMans should be enough qualifications, but if in doubt he's won plenty others. Steve gets paid to go fast consistantly, never to go slow.

As for his ties with Nissan, I doubt he would have anything to gain by lieing about a product. He surely didn't when he drove a 350Z for us back in 2005 during the Best All-Around Sports Car story.

When I first heard the results of the GT-R test I had a similar reaction you did. That of "no way" is the GT-R 5-seconds a lap quicker! Having the resources to look at the collected GPS data I proceeded to explore what happened. Turns out the GT-R has better tires and the AWD technology to put them to use. Lots of other factors, but I assure you Steve didn't hold back in the Z06. Nothing in the data would suggest that. The fact that the 911 Turbo and Z06 ran nearly identical times is as expected from all previous testing of the two cars.

Best,
-Shaun

P.S. If I'm wrong Motonishi-san can have my job."

I disagree with the editor........especially with the extremely slow lap set by the ZO6 around Buttonwillow. I would say that a driver mod is in order. Hopefully not an ex Nissan factory driver and ex Nissan factory racer. As for the comment on nothing to be gained, again Steve Millen owns a company and guess what............they are currently holding their 12th Annual Nissan/Infinity Appreciation Day

From: http://www.stillen.com/



From Automotorsport around Mantorp Park's short (1.950 km/1.212 mile) configuration



and another

From:http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...p_2007_feature

Caranddriver The Lightning Lap at VIR, 2007

2007 Corvette ZO6 - 2:58.2
2007 Porsche 911 GT3 - 3:01.8
2007 Chevrolet Corvette - 3:03.6
2007 Porsche 911 Turbo - 3:05.8

[thedguy]

To keep this fair, C&D tested the Z06 with a completely different set of cars on the same exact course.

Low and behold it ran a 2:01 same as R&T. Interesting to point out that the Porsche GT3RS ran a 2:01.5 and an Ariel Atom 2 (245hp supercharged model) ran 1:58.3

[Ottobon]

I have no doubt that the GT-R is that fast, but i don't think its all down to the 4WD, I'm honestly starting to think that it uses what tire it has more effectively because Nissan may have actually done a proper job on the suspension geometry. Everything reported about the way it drives points to that, primarily that it seems very progressive and doesn't have any freakish under or oversteer.

about the fun factor, two obvious things: tactile communication has been said to be somewhat vague, so obviously thats part of it, and secondly it doesn't really sound that good, especially compared to a Z06. So no duh its not as fun as it could be, I'm sure its more comfortable then the Z06.

Originally Posted by flyingfridge

How do you mean? The AWD system isn't as active as everyone thinks it is, like an evo. ATTESSA ET-S is pretty simple in comparison, most of the time the GT-R is 2/98 front-back. When things get out of shape based on rear traction and a series of yaw sensors and accelerometers the car can shift power forward up to 50/50. It's designed to be as RWD as possible and ONLY bring in the fronts when they're absolutely needed.

you need to shutup before you make me fall in love with GT-Rs. I cant do that! Its like the car for Civic drivers to elevate to

[argatoga]

Originally Posted by thedguy

Just goes to show Chevy's suspension engineers still have some learning to do.

Well that and Nissan did the smart thing and had Lotus tune their suspension.

Anyhow congrats to the GTR, Nissan did a brilliant job, amazingly its handling made up for its poor power to weight ratio (compared to the Vett). Now GM has more reason to improve the Z06 come refresh time.

[Leonidae]

they'll just put bigger engine in it, or add power with tuning or supercharger and leave the suspension as it is.. oh wait, that's Ford. never mind.

[scathing]

http://www.freehandtv.com.au/index.p...id=46&Itemid=9

Originally Posted by flyingfridge

How do you mean? The AWD system isn't as active as everyone thinks it is, like an evo. ATTESSA ET-S is pretty simple in comparison, most of the time the GT-R is 2/98 front-back. When things get out of shape based on rear traction and a series of yaw sensors and accelerometers the car can shift power forward up to 50/50.

The second part sounds pretty "active" to me.

The biggest difference between the GT-R's drivetrain and the Evo's is that the GT-R still uses mechanical LSDs to split power from side to side. They both react to yaw and accelerometer sensor inputs to decide how much torque to sent to the front even if there's no wheelspin.

An implementation choice is that one always runs in AWD mode given the low-grip nature of its target environment, and the other runs in a rear-biased mode given the higher grip in its intended use.

The 997 Turbo's AWD system is still relatively mechanical, so it can only react to wheelspin and so the car is already a little loose by the time it shuffles power around. ATTESSA sends power to the front on corner exit As it does this before the tail steps out, it makes the car more confident to drive.

Originally Posted by flyingfridge

It's designed to be as RWD as possible and ONLY bring in the fronts when they're absolutely needed.

Exactly. Its a lot easier to build a constant AWD drivetrain with differentials than the hydraulic rigmarole that Nissan implemented in the GT-R. The drivetrain disconnects the hydraulic coupling if it has traction in a straight line, reducing parasitic loss, as well as improving turn-in feel and grip due to the lack of torque being applied to the steering wheels as they're being loaded. It only sends power to the front if the rears are being overwhelmed or when you start unloading the fronts and more grip becomes available to those tyres.

Its hardly as basic as you're implying.

[Yaco]

Unfortunately for Nissan, they haven't won anything; Neither has anyone else.

I am a lil' bias but each have their time and place. If the Zo6 had a better suspension, more technology, or AWD it would easily beat the others, however the GTR, (am about 99% sure like its older models,) is highly adaptable. You can make it to how you want it with a little more cash. The 911 will always have the "German" appeal -Reliable, smooth, amenaties, status, and less flash, (which can be very appealing).

[scathing]

Originally Posted by Yaco

I am a lil' bias but each have their time and place. If the Zo6 had a better suspension, more technology, or AWD it would easily beat the others

...blah blah blah. If a Honda Civic had as much spent on it in aftermarket parts to make it cost equivalent to these cars, it would also go faster. If a Toyota Prius had a Flux Capacitor, it'd easily be the fastest car ever.

The point is, they don't. Lets talk about what is, not what could be.

[petarkb]

Originally Posted by scathing

If a Toyota Prius had a Flux Capacitor, it'd easily be the fastest car ever.

You DO realize that you have to reach 88 miles per hour...? *scratches head*

[scathing]

Originally Posted by petarkb

You DO realize that you have to reach 88 miles per hour...? *scratches head*

Its a Prius. You'd probably just have to reach 88mpg.

[Redliner]

Originally Posted by scathing

Its a Prius. You'd probably just have to reach 88mpg.

What a contradiction: "To be the fastest, you must go slower."

[Spectre]

Originally Posted by monaroCountry

A combination of a short and twisty track, and a a well known former NISSAN FACTORY DRIVER AND RACER.........excellent combinations there.

Porsche and GM were free to offer similar staffing for their vehicles. They didn't. They suffer the consequences.

Besides, as others have pointed out, other drivers in a different Z06 on the same course are turning in the exact same times. That tells me the limitation is the car, not the driver.

[scathing]

Originally Posted by Spectre

Porsche and GM were free to offer similar staffing for their vehicles. They didn't. They suffer the consequences.

Given the editor's comments I think Steve Millen is one of the "pro drivers" that R&T uses to normalise their comparo times, rather than someone Nissan offered for this specific test.

However, even Nissan fans don't particularly like Steve Millen's company.