FinalGear.com Forums  

Go Back   FinalGear.com Forums > General Discussion > Photography > Tutorials

Welcome to the FinalGear.com Forums!

This is the place to discuss everything related to Top Gear, Fifth Gear, and more! However, to gain full access to these forums, you will need to register. As a registered member, you will be able to:

  • Remove all ads from the forums. If you've taken the time to register, we'll thank you by not bothering you with them.
  • Make your own posts and threads. The shows' producers have been known to read these forums, so you may just influence the shows by posting here!
  • View the Video Offers and Video Requests forums which contain lots of great content.
  • Get to know a bunch of friendly people and participate in an ever-growing community.

All this and much more is available to you absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or logging into your account, you can contact us. Already have an account? Login to the upper-right to hide this message and all advertisements on the forums.


Tutorials Learn how to be über here.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old July 14th, 2007, 03:57 PM   #1
 
Shadowness's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 20th, 2005
Last Online: Yesterday
Location: Midlands, UK
Age: 21
Posts: 1,035
Car: Renault Clio
Rep Power: 21
Shadowness has between 650 and 999 reputationShadowness has between 650 and 999 reputationShadowness has between 650 and 999 reputationShadowness has between 650 and 999 reputationShadowness has between 650 and 999 reputationShadowness has between 650 and 999 reputation
Send a message via MSN to Shadowness
Default Filters (Circ-Pol + ND)

This tutorial will cover two main types of filters: Circular Polarizers and Neutral Density (ND).

Before I begin, I will start by saying that these are luxary items, and are not necessary to take great photos. They are tools to help improve photos, or provide new ways to take photos (more on this later).

So first up: Circular Polarizers.

The main use for these, and forgive my unscientific answer, is to make photos prettier.
Circular polarizers:
- darken the sky
- improve the contrast between the sky and clouds (pics below)
- remove glare from water surfaces ie. sea and lakes etc.
- generally increase the saturation of all colours in the photo

Enough talk, lets see some pics:

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa201/DanFreeman_photo/filters.jpg
Photo 1: Photo taken under normal conditions with no filters.
Photo 2: Photo taken with circular polarizer (correctly set <-- more on this later)
Photo 3: Photo taken with circular polarizer and NDx8 filter <-- more on this later.

The visual differences between photos 1 and 2 are very obvious. The sky is a much darker and richer colour, and the contrast has been improved. Also, the very ligh clouds at the top of the frame are much more obvious in photo 2.
Photo 3 is slightly different from photo 2, the colour cast is different, and the sky has lost the rich blue colour. On the negative side, note how the clouds are slightly over exposed.

Unlike most filters, the circular polarizer can be adjusted by rotating it. So care must be taken to correctly set the polarizer before taking the photo. You will see as you rotate the polarizer as the sky becomes darker - that is when the polarizer is at maximum effect.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa201/DanFreeman_photo/CorrectUncorrect.jpg
Left: Polarizer incorrectly set
Right: Polarizer correctly set.

Another BIG use for circular polarizers (CPLs) is in motorsport. If you want to seriously get into this type of photography, then a CPL is a MUST.......NO QUESTION!!

The biggest effect thats noticable is that it removes the glare from the windscreen, so you can see that driver, see these two pics:

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa201/DanFreeman_photo/DSC_3134.jpg
The glare is so bad that you can only just make out the driver's helmet.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa201/DanFreeman_photo/EDC_1778copy.jpg
The CPL has completely removed the horrible glare, and now we can see the driver images/smilies/smile.gif


Again, to create this effect, the CPL has to be correctly set. My tip is to find some other car/ambulance images/smilies/wink.gif to use, and then rotate the CPL until the glare has been removed.
NOTE: If you change position, remember to re-set the CPL.

TIP: To see if your CPL is working correctly, remove it from the camera, hold it up to a LCD/TFT monitor, look through it with your eyes and rotate it - see what happens images/smilies/smile.gif


Well, that's CPLs covered. Now lets talk about Neutral density (ND)filters.

NDs are a lot more basic, they just attach onto the lens, and that's it, no adjustments to make. Basically, the job on an ND is to block light - that's it.

This may sound dull, but it can be VERY useful. Common applications of it are shooting waterfalls. Classic waterfall shots show a lot of movement:

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa201/DanFreeman_photo/DSC_6533.jpg
The classic style waterfall shot, the low shutter speed (3 seconds!) creates the smooth flowing effect.

To create this effect, you need a low(ish) shutter speed, and on a bright sunny day and at f/32 you may not be able to go low enough. So this is where an ND filter is essential. The ND blocks light, allowing you to use a much lower shutter speed.

Other very common applications are when using automotive rig shots. The cars are driving (usually psuhed!) very slowly, so to create the sense of movement, a ND is needed to drop the shutter speed right down.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa201/DanFreeman_photo/DSC_2713FINALcopy.jpg
Here, an ND helped me to use a shutter speed (0.5 sec) slow enough
to create the sense of movement needed. Without one, it would have been impossible.

NDs also have an effect on landscape photography:

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa201/DanFreeman_photo/NDs.jpg
The ND has darkened the sky, but the contrast is still
very similar. The clouds are a little darker, showing a little more detail.

NDs come in various ratings ie. x4, x8. The higher the number, the more light it blocks.


Well I hope that's helped some people, like I said before - these are luxary items, but they're worth every penny. They can be quite expensive depending on the size you require. I've found some bargains on eBay (reputable dealers!!!).
Any questions, feel free to ask. I'm sure ive forgot some things, but hopefully the pics say more than words ever could!
Dan
__________________

Photo gallery----> http://www.danfreemanphotography.com/

Last edited by Shadowness; July 14th, 2007 at 04:01 PM.
Shadowness is offline   Reply With Quote
Want To Remove This Ad? Just Register For A FREE Account!
Old July 14th, 2007, 04:10 PM   #2
 
Joined: Apr 9th, 2006
Last Online: Yesterday
Age: 28
Posts: 185
Rep Power: 0
jimmymac has between 0 and 9 reputation
Default

great stuff, really interested in the use of the polariser, very early days for me in photography and to be fair i hadnt even thought to think of rotating the polariser, silly really when i know full well what things like polarising sunglasses do. Hoping to do work with motorsports so this will be really useful, cheers images/smilies/smile.gif
__________________
jimmymac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 14th, 2007, 08:54 PM   #3
Cigar Smoking Man
 
jayhawk's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 11th, 2005
Last Online: Yesterday
Location: Listening to stories from the Brân Lwyd.
Age: 32
Posts: 4,805
Car: MY07 G11 WRX-TR WRB.
Rep Power: 77
jayhawk has a reputation beyond reputejayhawk has a reputation beyond reputejayhawk has a reputation beyond reputejayhawk has a reputation beyond reputejayhawk has a reputation beyond reputejayhawk has a reputation beyond reputejayhawk has a reputation beyond reputejayhawk has a reputation beyond reputejayhawk has a reputation beyond reputejayhawk has a reputation beyond reputejayhawk has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I have a Hoya CPL that is used whenever there is adequate light. Probably worth it's weight in gold, photography wise.

To make sure it is in the correct position, I point the camera at grass on a sunny day and adjust until the glare is gone. Or, if you are in a car, put a piece of white paper on the dash, and adjust until the papers reflection in the glass vanishes. Bought the filter here: http://www.2filter.com/
__________________
It is nice to have friends like you on this forum.
In the wee hours I'll meet you, down by Dun Ringill.

Wife is re-employed....maybe I will show up unexpectantly at the next Nürburgring meet...
jayhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 14th, 2007, 09:02 PM   #4
 
Joined: Jan 17th, 2007
Last Online: Yesterday
Location: Southern Florida USA
Posts: 260
Car: '96 camry
Rep Power: 7
damnhawk has between 10 and 49 reputation
Default

damn....so is the ND filter that necessary for rig shooting? I never thought about how to get that low of a shutter speed in bright light. I bet a 77mm one is on the expensive side of things...
damnhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 14th, 2007, 09:09 PM   #5
 
Shadowness's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 20th, 2005
Last Online: Yesterday
Location: Midlands, UK
Age: 21
Posts: 1,035
Car: Renault Clio
Rep Power: 21
Shadowness has between 650 and 999 reputationShadowness has between 650 and 999 reputationShadowness has between 650 and 999 reputationShadowness has between 650 and 999 reputationShadowness has between 650 and 999 reputationShadowness has between 650 and 999 reputation
Send a message via MSN to Shadowness
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by damnhawk View Post
damn....so is the ND filter that necessary for rig shooting? I never thought about how to get that low of a shutter speed in bright light. I bet a 77mm one is on the expensive side of things...
I got my 77mm off eBay for about £30 inc shipping. In the UK they are WAY more than that.
__________________

Photo gallery----> http://www.danfreemanphotography.com/
Shadowness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 14th, 2007, 09:23 PM   #6
Unloved and lacking a title
 
watto's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 13th, 2005
Last Online: Yesterday
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Age: 23
Posts: 5,011
Car: 1997 VW Golf MkIII CL, Giant OCR 3
Rep Power: 51
watto has a reputation beyond reputewatto has a reputation beyond reputewatto has a reputation beyond reputewatto has a reputation beyond reputewatto has a reputation beyond reputewatto has a reputation beyond reputewatto has a reputation beyond reputewatto has a reputation beyond reputewatto has a reputation beyond reputewatto has a reputation beyond reputewatto has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I love my CPL, it's a great thing. I described it to my girlfriend as simply as I could by just saying "it's like putting sunglasses on the lens. Creates more contrast and reduces glare"
__________________
RickRolling people whenever his phone rings
watto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2007, 12:25 PM   #7
 
flamingice's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 25th, 2005
Last Online: Yesterday
Location: It's complicated.
Posts: 865
Rep Power: 12
flamingice has between 10 and 49 reputation
Default

Since I've had my new lens, I've been going without a CPL... but with doing a lot of landscape photography, I ordered one of E-Bay a few days ago. Including shipping, it came out to less than half the price I could find it for in the stores here!

Dan, a question about that last comparison shot... if it's a ND, not a GND, how does it have an effect on a landscape photo?

Thanks for the writeup!
__________________
flamingice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2007, 12:32 PM   #8
 
Shadowness's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 20th, 2005
Last Online: Yesterday
Location: Midlands, UK
Age: 21
Posts: 1,035
Car: Renault Clio
Rep Power: 21
Shadowness has between 650 and 999 reputationShadowness has between 650 and 999 reputationShadowness has between 650 and 999 reputationShadowness has between 650 and 999 reputationShadowness has between 650 and 999 reputationShadowness has between 650 and 999 reputation
Send a message via MSN to Shadowness
Default

A graduated ND probably would be better, but I just wanted to show the effect a normal ND has. You can see a difference, but for landscape photography - its probalby not as useful.
__________________

Photo gallery----> http://www.danfreemanphotography.com/
Shadowness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2007, 12:53 PM   #9
 
flamingice's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 25th, 2005
Last Online: Yesterday
Location: It's complicated.
Posts: 865
Rep Power: 12
flamingice has between 10 and 49 reputation
Default

Yup, understood... I can see the difference between the two photos, but was just wondering if you happen to know why it makes a difference? My understanding was that it was just a darkened piece of glass... so to get the correct exposure, you'd just have a longer shutter speed, but the resulting photo would be the same?
__________________
flamingice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2007, 03:58 PM   #10
 
mautzel's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 28th, 2005
Last Online: September 6th, 2008
Location: Frankfurt/M, Deutschland
Age: 28
Posts: 2,416
Car: Golf IV TDI
Rep Power: 18
mautzel has between 150 and 249 reputationmautzel has between 150 and 249 reputation
Default

First - thanks fpr the tutorial.

I got a specific question regarding CPL's. I got a cheap CPL off ebay for my f 4.0-5.6 70-300mm telelens. Could it be that CPL's have an impact on sharpness as my camera doesn't seem to be able to focus properly the longer the focal lenghth is when the filter's put on? Also, could it be that the effect is much more noticeable through the view-finder than on a PC monitor?
mautzel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2007, 04:02 PM   #11
 
Shadowness's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 20th, 2005
Last Online: Yesterday
Location: Midlands, UK
Age: 21
Posts: 1,035
Car: Renault Clio
Rep Power: 21
Shadowness has between 650 and 999 reputationShadowness has between 650 and 999 reputationShadowness has between 650 and 999 reputationShadowness has between 650 and 999 reputationShadowness has between 650 and 999 reputationShadowness has between 650 and 999 reputation
Send a message via MSN to Shadowness
Default

Regarding the quality issue - to a certain extent, filters do affect the quality of images, as the light has to travel through more glass, but it's very small and hardly noticable. I imagine it will start to have a big effect if you stack loads of filters.
As for focusing, CPLs shouldnt affect focusing at all on modern cameras.
__________________

Photo gallery----> http://www.danfreemanphotography.com/
Shadowness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2007, 04:10 PM   #12
 
mautzel's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 28th, 2005
Last Online: September 6th, 2008
Location: Frankfurt/M, Deutschland
Age: 28
Posts: 2,416
Car: Golf IV TDI
Rep Power: 18
mautzel has between 150 and 249 reputationmautzel has between 150 and 249 reputation
Default

Seems like there's something wrong with my filter, then. images/smilies/sad.gif
mautzel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2007, 04:58 PM   #13
 
flamingice's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 25th, 2005
Last Online: Yesterday
Location: It's complicated.
Posts: 865
Rep Power: 12
flamingice has between 10 and 49 reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mautzel View Post
First - thanks fpr the tutorial.

I got a specific question regarding CPL's. I got a cheap CPL off ebay for my f 4.0-5.6 70-300mm telelens. Could it be that CPL's have an impact on sharpness as my camera doesn't seem to be able to focus properly the longer the focal lenghth is when the filter's put on? Also, could it be that the effect is much more noticeable through the view-finder than on a PC monitor?
I've seen filters that have significantly decreased the quality of an image. You don't need to buy a super fancy one, but try to get something that's at least decent... I figure it's worth paying a bit more for the extra quality.

Regarding focusing, as Shadowness said a CPL shouldn't really affect it, although I think linear polarizers can cause problems with automatic focusing/metering on some cameras.

Another possibility is that you might not be getting enough light through the lens. In low light situations, a lens with a larger apeture will be able to focus better than one with a smaller apeture. Your camera will always use the widest apeture possible for focusing. The lens you're using has a pretty small apeture to begin with, putting on a polarizing filter will reduce the amount of light even further. If you're trying to shoot in conditions with a bit less light, that could be the problem.
__________________
flamingice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2007, 06:21 PM   #14
Hormone Induced
 
BerserkerCatSplat's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 21st, 2005
Last Online: Yesterday
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 5,457
Car: Pimpmobile
Rep Power: 59
BerserkerCatSplat has a reputation beyond reputeBerserkerCatSplat has a reputation beyond reputeBerserkerCatSplat has a reputation beyond reputeBerserkerCatSplat has a reputation beyond reputeBerserkerCatSplat has a reputation beyond reputeBerserkerCatSplat has a reputation beyond reputeBerserkerCatSplat has a reputation beyond reputeBerserkerCatSplat has a reputation beyond reputeBerserkerCatSplat has a reputation beyond reputeBerserkerCatSplat has a reputation beyond reputeBerserkerCatSplat has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingice View Post

Another possibility is that you might not be getting enough light through the lens. In low light situations, a lens with a larger apeture will be able to focus better than one with a smaller apeture. Your camera will always use the widest apeture possible for focusing. The lens you're using has a pretty small apeture to begin with, putting on a polarizing filter will reduce the amount of light even further. If you're trying to shoot in conditions with a bit less light, that could be the problem.
That's his problem, pretty much guaranteed. The 75-300 is f/5.6 at the long end, and sticking a CP on the end further restricts the light getting to the AF system.
__________________

OSPhoto
BerserkerCatSplat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2007, 06:51 PM   #15
 
burnsy's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 25th, 2005
Last Online: Yesterday
Location: Indiana, USA
Age: 26
Posts: 638
Car: 2006 Ford Ranger FX4
LFS Status: LFS Status
Rep Power: 15
burnsy has between 50 and 149 reputation
Send a message via AIM to burnsy Send a message via MSN to burnsy
Default

i've got a question about my new Promaster CPL.
i'm an old school film SLR guy, as i can't afford a nice DSLR. just bought a CPL, as this tutorial will help with my pictures, but, it would be the first time i would have it. my Vivitar v3800N with 28-70mm and 70-210mm is a manual focus. would i need to adjust the CPL every time i focus either lens? or just adjust once no matter the focus?
__________________
Top Gear Episode Guide & More | Top Gear DVDs | Team FinalGear.com | Photo Gallery
LOTA Grand Touring Cup Squad Champions: FinalGear Racing

burnsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2007, 07:34 PM   #16
 
flamingice's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 25th, 2005
Last Online: Yesterday
Location: It's complicated.
Posts: 865
Rep Power: 12
flamingice has between 10 and 49 reputation
Default

As long as the camera is pointing in the same general direction, the CPL should stay set at the same angle for the best results. So, if you change the zoom, or refocus, you shouldn't have to change the CPL.

UNLESS... you have a lens where the front rotates when you focus or zoom. In that case you would need to readjust the polarizer.
__________________
flamingice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2007, 07:36 PM   #17
 
burnsy's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 25th, 2005
Last Online: Yesterday
Location: Indiana, USA
Age: 26
Posts: 638
Car: 2006 Ford Ranger FX4
LFS Status: LFS Status
Rep Power: 15
burnsy has between 50 and 149 reputation
Send a message via AIM to burnsy Send a message via MSN to burnsy
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingice View Post
As long as the camera is pointing in the same general direction, the CPL should stay set at the same angle for the best results. So, if you change the zoom, or refocus, you shouldn't have to change the CPL.

UNLESS... you have a lens where the front rotates when you focus or zoom. In that case you would need to readjust the polarizer.
yes, the whole lens rotates when focusing. do i need to get a different kind of polarizer for my lens?
__________________
Top Gear Episode Guide & More | Top Gear DVDs | Team FinalGear.com | Photo Gallery
LOTA Grand Touring Cup Squad Champions: FinalGear Racing

burnsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2007, 08:37 PM   #18
 
flamingice's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 25th, 2005
Last Online: Yesterday
Location: It's complicated.
Posts: 865
Rep Power: 12
flamingice has between 10 and 49 reputation
Default

Nope, it'll just be a bit of a pain, because you'll have to readjust it after every shot.
__________________
flamingice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2007, 08:51 PM   #19
MXM
old porsches do run!
 
MXM's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 9th, 2004
Last Online: Yesterday
Location: Finland
Age: 25
Posts: 2,550
Car: Porsche 944
LFS Status: LFS Status
Rep Power: 28
MXM has between 650 and 999 reputationMXM has between 650 and 999 reputationMXM has between 650 and 999 reputationMXM has between 650 and 999 reputationMXM has between 650 and 999 reputationMXM has between 650 and 999 reputationMXM has between 650 and 999 reputation
Send a message via MSN to MXM
Default

And it's not something you can fix by getting another filter. All polarizers are direction-dependent, as you can probably tell from this tutorial images/smilies/smile.gif
MXM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2007, 09:35 PM   #20
DoN
 
DoN's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 15th, 2006
Last Online: Yesterday
Location: Czech republic
Age: 22
Posts: 87
Car: Ford Escort
LFS Status: LFS Status
Rep Power: 10
DoN has between 50 and 149 reputationDoN has between 50 and 149 reputation
Send a message via ICQ to DoN
Default

If I may add some little info about graduated ND filters:

they are usually square/rectangle that is darkened on top and 100% transparent on bottom - which darkens the sky while leaves the landscape without effect. I believe they use this filter a lot in TopGear.

http://www.phyrefile.com/pic/2007/07/15/ndgrad2.jpg

and here actual comparsion without/with the filter:
http://www.phyrefile.com/pic/2007/07/15/ndgrad_000.jpg
they are usually more usefull in cloudy weather, when the sky would be overexposed without filter...when its sunny like this, its just to create some "cool" effect with almost black sky on top - which not everyone might like.
__________________
www.rallyphotos.cz
DoN is offline   Reply With Quote
Want To Remove This Ad? Just Register For A FREE Account!
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Go Back   FinalGear.com Forums > General Discussion > Photography > Tutorials
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
Forum Jump