Buying Canon 450D in September, lense help!

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally Posted by Tranquillizer

but do not buy 400D if someone recomends.(after all i can only suggest what i know)

Got any particular reason you're recommending against the 400D after your time of non-ownership?

[nomix]

The only reason I could mention for not getting the 400D is that the grip is as comfortable as being beaten with a rubber hose, but then again, that's subjective.

Anyone who in general terms says that one should not buy any modern dSLR, are silly. What's should be the deciding factor is how it feels in ones hands.

Therefore, the 400D is a camera I wouldn't think about, neither the 450D for that matter, while I could live very happily with a D40, an a200 or an E-400, which I actually own.

[Speedtouch]

Originally Posted by nomix

Anyone who in general terms says that one should not buy any modern dSLR, are silly. What's should be the deciding factor is how it feels in ones hands.

Excellent point. Don't be forced in by quality alone. If it doesn't fit your hands, its usability is deteriorated.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally Posted by nomix

The only reason I could mention for not getting the 400D is that the grip is as comfortable as being beaten with a rubber hose, but then again, that's subjective.

Anyone who in general terms says that one should not buy any modern dSLR, are silly. What's should be the deciding factor is how it feels in ones hands.

Therefore, the 400D is a camera I wouldn't think about, neither the 450D for that matter, while I could live very happily with a D40, an a200 or an E-400, which I actually own.

Yeah, the grip is the main thing that turns me off from the XX0D series, but it does work for some people. The 450D's grip is a bit improved over the 400D but it's still not as good as other budget cameras. Good reason to dislike it personally, bad reason to give it a blanket black mark.

[SuperStalin]

Buy a 40d it's much more functional than the cheaper series,
and it's not really too expensive.

If you're firmly decided on buying a lesser canon,
then buy the 450d, it's got a much better sensor than the 400d,
it's more ergonomic, and it has live view which can be useful in
a lot of situations.

[nomix]

Originally Posted by BerserkerCatSplat

Yeah, the grip is the main thing that turns me off from the XX0D series, but it does work for some people. The 450D's grip is a bit improved over the 400D but it's still not as good as other budget cameras. Good reason to dislike it personally, bad reason to give it a blanket black mark.

Spoken like a gentleman. For me, the 400D is being stabbed, the 450D is being punched in the mouth. Yes, it's better, but it's still nothing I want.

Really, quality is more than enough from all contemporary cameras, so go with the best grip.

One reason why I can agree that the D40 has deserved its market share, even if I dislike that Nikon stripped of the focus screw (I still think that's just stupid, how much money can they be saving, really?).

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally Posted by nomix

(I still think that's just stupid, how much money can they be saving, really?).

I suspect that equal parts size and cost were the main factors in that decision, but I'll agree 110% that not having anything below the D80 without a screwdriver was a really dumb idea.

[TheScottishSpotter]

Ok i'm still on the journey of making my mind up but I think I have come to a conclusion. The 40D has been said to be such a good camera, I have heard so much about it and hell, even some of you have recommended it and I think I would benefit of having a 40D over 450D. Apparently the 450D is a bit flimsy and also very small so may be uncomfortable to hold.

If I was to get the 40D I would not get a long lense but would get a 17-85 IS USM lense to learn how to use the camera and then think about a 70-200 IS USM F/4-5.6 or F2.8. Whether I would get the camera with or without the 17-85 would depend entirely on the price as I would be looking to get both for the cheapest I could.

The package I saw and looked pretty good for the money was this one *LINK*
I would also probably get the lense hood *LINK*

I may also buy a 50mm 1.8 Lense to go with it as they are very cheap and are very good *LINK*

With this change of opinion what do you guys think? Comments and suggestions welcomed!

[SuperStalin]

Bear in mind that a "normal" lense on the 40d's 1.6x crop sensor is from 35mm and below ( which is expensive as hell ).

[TopGearDog]

If it doesnt feel right in your hand, forget it.

A great example is when my grandfather visited last weekend. He has an Olympus e-410 i think it was. Seemed like a great 10mp camera with loads of functions, great image quality and all the shananigans, but when i held it in my hand, i couldnt believe how hard it was to get a proper grip on it.

Compared to my D70, it was fairly small, but it was completely flat where you placer you fingers, unlike the Nikons where there is an indent on the front to wrap your fingers around. I just couldnt hold that camera properly and as soon as i put it down and picked up my D70 again, it just felt so much better holding it, like a part of me.

Technology isnt everything, if it doesnt feel right in your hand, it probably never will.

[nomix]

Sorry for going OT, but that just shows why most people don't like the grip on the E-4x0 series of cameras.

TGD's grandad probably used film cameras in ye'olde days, and live happily ever after with even worse grips. The trick is, you don't hold it by the grip, but by the lens, and then it makes sense.

Try putting your cell phone in your left pocket. It feels weird, right? Keep it there for a couple of weeks and change back to your right pocket.

But the E-4x0 series is a very special case. It works simply because you hold it differently. I feel very comfortable with my E-400, while i despise the 350D/400D/450D. But then again, if the D70 works for you, then there's no point in selling it. I'll just like t note that these cameras are somewhat different from others.

The thing is, before getting any camera, you need to try it. TGD makes not only a very important point, but also the most important point in getting a camera. The ergonomics are far more important than the minute differences in IQ between the cameras.

[TheScottishSpotter]

Originally Posted by SuperStalin

Bear in mind that a "normal" lense on the 40d's 1.6x crop sensor is from 35mm and below ( which is expensive as hell ).

I am not entirely sure what you are meaning. Care to explain?

Originally Posted by nomix

The thing is, before getting any camera, you need to try it. TGD makes not only a very important point, but also the most important point in getting a camera. The ergonomics are far more important than the minute differences in IQ between the cameras.

I agree with you 100%. Problem is what type of shops would have a 40D in? I mean theres a jessops in the town. Do you think they would have one in or should I look elsewhere to try one out?

[epp_b]

A friend of mine got a 400D at the end of last year and loves it. I've used it a bit, and I don't really have anything to compare it to other than my D40, but I can't say that I found it at all uncomfortable, even with the 70-300mm lens attached. But, then, I don't have big hands either.

Also remember that holding a 40D is like carrying an anvil. And then you have to attach a lens.

I'm sure glad my Nikon D40 has plastic construction. Just sayin'

I am not entirely sure what you are meaning. Care to explain?

Digital SLRs have a smaller sensor than 35mm (a standard size for film cameras), so lenses have to be built to match the sensor size, which is why you see "35mm equiv." specifications for lenses. Wikipedia has some good info.

[SuperStalin]

Originally Posted by TheScottishSpotter

I am not entirely sure what you are meaning. Care to explain?

Well, there are two types of sensors on the DSLR market. The full frame 35mm sensor is what you can find in the hi-end cameras like Canon 1Ds, 5D, Nikon D3, D700.

When you attach a lens to that type of camera, you get exactly what it says on the lens, because lenses are made since the dawn of time to fit that ancient standard.

Other cameras have half the size of that sensor.
Here's a nice comparison: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/CanonEOS5D/page12.asp



So basically, if you want a 50mm lens for your 40D, or 450D,
you have to get a 35mm or perhaps a 28mm lens, so, when you multiply it by 1.6 you get close to 50mm.

It's a bit stupid they made it so complicated, as if different mounts weren't complicated enough.

[epp_b]

^ Ugh, no kidding. Talk about a need for standards.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally Posted by epp_b

^ Ugh, no kidding. Talk about a need for standards.

Hey, I like DX-format, it means DSLR's don't start at $2500. Big sensors are expensive.

BTW, Canon has 1X, 1.3X, and 1.6X crop sensors.

[epp_b]

Hey, I like DX-format, it means DSLR's don't start at $2500. Big sensors are expensive.

BTW, Canon has 1X, 1.3X, and 1.6X crop sensors.

I was referring more to the lens mounts. Would be neat if there were a variety of standards that could go cross-brand.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

You can, sortof. You can get adapters that allow for (almost) full functionality of Nikon lenses on Canon cameras.

[nomix]

Fourthirds can use any mount except Canon EOS as far as I know. Even Mamiya 645 is possible with an adapter.

And funnily enough, Canon is better suited for handling older Nikkor lenses unless you go for the really high end cameras.

[carolsLittleWorld]

I love the IS lenses, especially the new, cheap ones. They work great. They are a bit "cheap" feeling but they are way less money than the previously available (from Canon) ones. It's just the casing that's cheap, the optics are pretty decent. If you are, like me, a bit rough on your lenses, you can use them for a year or two and then upgrade.

The new Canon 450D comes with a kit IS lens (18-55mm zoom) I believe. That's not a bad kit to start with, though I would supplement it with a "nifty 50" if you feel you are just starting out and want something to learn with. You can probably get a 50mm 1.8 or something for a pocket money and that's a great lens to have once you feel more comfortable with the kit.