So I'm thinking about buying an SLR camera...

[MXM]

... from lower price range.

Already read dosens of reviews and feedbacks, and the obvious choice seems to be between Canon and Nikon. So far I'm leaning towards Nikon based on what I've heard.

Money is the issue, so I'm thinking about D50. What are real advantages of D70/70s?
But I'd rather had 18-70 lens, which comes with D70 kit. It's pretty expensive to buy separately. So maybe it's wiser to buy new D50 body and some used lens? What can I expect from used lens for 200-300e?

I'm total noob in SLR world, and there're so much lenses that I'm lost. I just want to buy a ready camera "to grow with". So I wouldn't have to change expensive parts after a short period.
Sigma lenses seem to be a popular choice. How do they work with Nikons? Can I use autofocus if I need to, for example?

So those who had to go through same choice making stages, I'd appreciate your feedback. Also some Nikon owners could write few words

[pdanev]

Lol, nice timing. I'm also looking to upgrate my photography equipment, which atm is a broken crappy 3mp kodak. My budget is more limited though, so I'm looking for a 300D.

[zenkidori]

you can hack the lower end Canon Digital rebel to perform like a higher end 10D if you want to save some money. just requires changing the firmware.

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/06/02/004258
http://www.bobatkins.com/photography...ware_hack.html

If you are talking about 35mm cameras, well then I have a Minolta and a Nikon, both work really well.

[asphotos]

canon vs nikon

nikon lenses (in the future) are more expensive.

nikon have just released a d200, looks good, if thats your prefernece,

the d50 nikon / 350d canons are ok

the d70s (d70 is discontinued) vs 20d is good also, the 20d is really aimed at the d100 (new d200) nikons.

the 20d will out shoot a d70 in low light/high iso situations. but they generally perform the same.

at the end of the day, they both take good pics.

as for lenses, any camera can take a good pic, its the quality of the glass that makes all the difference. buy the best glass you can. problem with these APS sensor sized digitals is they have a 35mm (film slr lens length) crop factor,

nikon is 1.5 times, canon 1.6 times.

so a standard film lens package is 28-80mm, which is 45mm on a digital dogy, not very WIDE...

thus SH lenses might not suit.

thus the 17-55/ 17-70 etc etc.. is needed.. and not common SH,

maybe do a package deal with a camera store and get a sigma/tamron 18-200 lens. and a 350d/20d/d50/d70s package.

i ahve a 10d and 1d mk2. my gf has a d70, and i got a friend a d50. ive also used a 20d and 5d, as well as a 1dsmk2, and the d100 for a day. they all take pics. ;P

flip a coin. and the end of the day!

[MXM]

D50 body is much cheaper here than 300D body, so I'd rather go with that.

And about the lens, Sigma 18-125mm looks interesting. Pretty wide range to cover most situations, and though it's twice as expensive as D50 kit-lens, it's probably worth it?

EDIT: asphotos, 20D is waaay off my price range. I was thinking to spend less than 600euro on body and around 200-250euro on lens. 20D body alone is 1400e. So comparison with D70 is a bit unfair, as D70 goes for half that price here.

[MXM]

I though I decided on D50 + Sigma 18-125mm so far (found them cheap in Germany), but then saw this site:
http://www.photozone.de/active/surve...gma%20AF%27%20
and now I'm complitely lost. According to this Sigma blows in every category, and Nikkor 18-70 isn't best either, although not as bad as Sigma.

But I really don't want to carry 2 lenses, so I wanted a wider range, and it sucks

[asphotos]

no idea about euro prices.

im comparing them in aus$ ;P

the kit lens on the d50 is fine. you are not going to be selling these pics are you? if not, then dont worry, its fine.

[whoster]

and also i shall mention,


Nikon has a line of lenses that take into the crop factor into consideration--and got rid of that crop factor using DX lenses, made to work only on the Digital SLRs.

a smaller lense opening in the back insure that there's no 1.5x crop.

the DX line includes

10.5mm ED DXfisheye (very expensive toy $650~)
12-24mm ED DX (very expensive wide angle ($1300 ish)
17-55mm ED DX (a uber-pimp version of the 18-70mm, and $1300 as well)
18-55mm "ED" DX (cheap D50 kit lense) i put quotes around the "ED" cuz the 18-55mm and the 55-200mm don't really deserve them.
18-70mm ED DX (it's great, possibly the best do-it-all lense for a DSLR $350 ish?)
18-200mm ED VR (Vibration Reduction) DX (no idea how much this is gonna cost)
55-200mm "ED" DX (i've got it, it's ....halfway decent) <<don't buy that lense.


all of those lenses have no crop factor to them.

and even Canon users will testify...

the Canon EF-S 18-55mm < Nikkor 18-70mm ED DX
and i don't know where you're getting reviews of the 18-70mm Nikkor--but it's undoubtedly one of the best lenses you can have for a DSLR...and it's not just because i've got one.

i'd stay away from long zooms (18-200mm, 28-200mm)
just because they're just not as sharp and also suffer from distortion everywhere.

yeah it's a "hassle" carrying two lenses, but the images you get will be much better if you shoot with multiple lenses. yes..less is more, but in the case of wide to telephoto zooms, it isn't really the case.

the only long zoom i'd buy right now is the Nikkor 28-200mm ED lense--cheap, and uber sharp, with minimum distortion.



and get the D70s or a D70.

save up a bit more.

the D50....is a bit.. less substantial imo. the camera feels cheaper, and it also lacks a second wheel.
(on the D70/D70s, two separate wheels control Aperture / Shutter speeds, whereas a D50 only has ONE wheel.)

(more convenient with two dials imo.)





and what camera are you shooting with now?


given that you've just stated that you're a complete noob with a DSLR...
would you be using the camera to it's full potential?

you said it's a camera you want to grow with...
but i've seen people buy expensive cameras, and never take the SLR out of Auto Mode (which makes me really sad)

[andyhui01]

btw.... whoster... I don't understand what you mean by 2dials for apperature/shutter... I've used my dads 350D and it has 1 dial, you can only either adjust the shutter or aperature and they are on different modes... is that what you mean?

[whoster]

the D70 has two separate dials.


one for shutter, one for aperture.

[MXM]

Originally Posted by asphotos

you are not going to be selling these pics are you?

No, no. Just for my personal amusement

Originally Posted by whoster

Nikon has a line of lenses that take into the crop factor into consideration--and got rid of that crop factor using DX lenses, made to work only on the Digital SLRs.

a smaller lense opening in the back insure that there's no 1.5x crop.

I don't exactly understand what you mean by eliminating crop factor... I know these lenses are intended to use only on digital cameras, but you still have to do 1.5x multiplication to compare it to 35mm?

Originally Posted by whoster

and i don't know where you're getting reviews of the 18-70mm Nikkor--but it's undoubtedly one of the best lenses you can have for a DSLR...and it's not just because i've got one.

Well, not exactly a fair comparison, but for example here:
http://www.outbackphoto.com/reviews/...Nikon_d50.html
you can see just how big difference is (brick wall shot). Yes, yes, the 28-70 costs an arm and a leg, but this just showed me that differences are significant, so there's a point to spend some time on choosing best possible lens I can afford

Originally Posted by whoster

i'd stay away from long zooms (18-200mm, 28-200mm)
just because they're just not as sharp and also suffer from distortion everywhere.

Yeah, I understood that too. Saw many photos and complains on Sigma 18-125, and it's out of consideration now.

Originally Posted by whoster

and get the D70s or a D70.

save up a bit more.

the D50....is a bit.. less substantial imo. the camera feels cheaper, and it also lacks a second wheel.
(on the D70/D70s, two separate wheels control Aperture / Shutter speeds, whereas a D50 only has ONE wheel.)

Maybe, but D70 is 170e more expensive (cheapest ones I can find) compared to D50, and it's older. And D70s is 200e over D50. I just can't justify second command wheel for that money. Can't find other significan differences. Are there?

Originally Posted by whoster

and what camera are you shooting with now?

IXUS400, so that's quite a step up for me

Originally Posted by whoster

given that you've just stated that you're a complete noob with a DSLR...
would you be using the camera to it's full potential?

you said it's a camera you want to grow with...
but i've seen people buy expensive cameras, and never take the SLR out of Auto Mode (which makes me really sad)

Don't worry about the last point. I'm very curious by nature. Good if I don't open it after a week to see how it works

Thank you all for answers, I'm pretty sure now that I'm gonna go with D50 + 18-70mm. Seems like a fool-proof choise.

[Skoshi]

Onnea kameran ostoon!
Kyllä on aikamoinen parannus pokkareihin. Itse vaihdoin Canonin pokkarin 350D:hen enkä ole kyllä hetkeäkään katunut. Kameralaukkukin piti hommata, että saa rahdattua noita putkia mukana.

[mgkdk]

^ The only part I understand is 350D

[andyhui01]

I think you can guess what it means... it prob says the 350D is much better, than the Nikon because of something :p

[kosmoskatten]

I have or have had most of these cameras and especially the more expensive ones.

Basically, you can't go wrong. Differences discussed in reviews everywhere are very minor in reality.

Canon or Nikon? Unless you already have equipment of either brand or have friends who do (from whom you may borrow/buy used equipment from), it comes down to which you feel most comfortable with in your hand. That's all there is to it, period. If we're talking Nikon, the D50 is an excellent chioce--you don't need the D70s.

Sigma and Tokina will whip both Canon and Nikon's asses in most cases (and within the same price range). This is because they HAVE to be cheaper in order for people to choose them over the Nikon/Canon brand lenses. They work equally well. But again any differences are minor in the real world. I wouldn't advise you to buy used though, with prices being as low as they are for new equipment these days.

There's one thing to remember though: there's no free lunch. Don't buy a zoom with a super wide range; it WILL have more distortions. Something like 18-70 or thereabout is fine.

Anyways good luck, I'm sure you'll enjoy your new toys! There will be plenty to learn, just go out and shoot alot, have patience and you'll produce excellent images.

Edit: Something I'd like to add, not really related but: If you really want substantial, go for a used D1H. That camera weighs a ton and is more difficult to use. It's a bit like buying a 15 year old Mercedes S-class instead of a new Volkswagen Golf. It seems a bit weird to most people but some like it better. Buying the D70s because it's more substantial just doesn't make sense though, it's not ever close the a D1H.

Don't let this last little rant annoy you, what I mean to say is don't buy the D70s.

[MXM]

Originally Posted by andyhui01

I think you can guess what it means... it prob says the 350D is much better, than the Nikon because of something :p

Nah, just congratulates on the new toy choise 350 is the one he has.


kosmoskatten

Thanks for your input.
Basicly I finally decided on D50 today when went to feel some in my hands. D70/s just feels too big for me. Second command wheel (or it's abscense) isn't a big deal, as I can do adjust apperture with a "shift" on top, not too uncomfortable. If it were as cheap, I might consider it.

So D50 paired with 18-70mm it should be allright. As for Canon, I just can't find alternative pair for same money. Best prices I managed to find (in Germany) for D50 490e and for 18-70mm 300e. D70 and Canons send me at least 100-150e up.

And yeah... ebay prices aren't really much cheaper. Used or new. Except some of those who posts from Hong-Kong, but there are delivery insurance and tax issues, so I'm staying out of these ones.

[bihus]

Have you checked nomatica.com? or pixmania?

[MXM]

Yes, bihus, still too expensive. Well, I already ordered both parts from different shops (Germany), and even with twice the shipping costs it's cheaper than any combo I could find from single store.

Reading the manual now and waiting No idea how long it will take, could be weeks.

[bihus]

Keep us posted. Let us know when it arrives. And congrats. If my father didn't change his mind, I could have bought a 350D last month, instead of the S70. I bought a small Sony, a T5, 5MP, 3x, that was supposed to be a gift for someone and he decided to keep it. So, my old S45, that was to become his camera would be enough for the pocket camera function, and I didn't need to have bought the S70.

[MXM]

YEAH! Man, that was a long wait...