September Ex 2 Results

[Raheel]

There were only 4 entries, but some were good. These are the entries with the respective editors :

Original Image


Chop 1 [ATsucks]


Chop 2 [Kip666]


Chop 3 [s3r4x]


Chop 4 [tranceshakeel]


And here are the results :

3rd with 9 points is s3r4x


2nd with 14 points is Kip666


And The Winner is tranceshakeel with 17 points..



And the full Table of points is Here

[tranceshakeel]

Wooooooohhhhhhooooooooooo !!

My first win, solely because of the lack of entries but anyways im really happy !
I'll Post my choice for the next exercise soon ! Thanx all for voting !

[freakster_991]

haha all i get is red Xs..... any reasons why?

[SL65]

Yeh same

[Overheat]

this is why I stopped entering. The only car with any sort of flair was the only unclassified car.

[pdanev]

^ x2

[Kip_6666]

^ then vote yourself?

[pdanev]

When you enter a competition, you cant vote for yourself obviously, so you get results like above. And lately, im just scrolling through this section quickly, and neither participate, nor vote.

[Kip_6666]

yet, your complaining...





But is it all about winning anyway?

[pdanev]

Its not about winning, its about getting proper feedback and credit. But when people vote around randomly, you always feel like wtf is going on here... My point is, that the whole idea becomes pointless and stupid without proper voting. Without voting, we could just drop the whole monthly exercies thing, and just let people post random chops in the ps section. But when you do a chop on a particular car/task, you would like to know how well you did compared to others.

[Kip_6666]

They way you vote isn't random at all. Its not like filling in a poll, when u just go and click something. Here u start a pm message, and you actually have to type which three you want to place. Thats a whole procedure. And if people are going to fill it in randomly, well that just seems contradicting to me. Why go through all that trouble just to pick a few numbers out of your head.

I think your just unhappy cause not everyone has the same opinion. If you don't agree who came first or so, meh. Its going to happen, cause not everyone is the same.

And people don't pick what amount of skill went into something, they pick what they like. And that how it goes in the real world. I can make an example using women, but thats just going to get discected to bits
Well maybe not everyone, but there have never been any voteing guidelines to that.
So the average person is going to pick what they like.


What proper voting in your eyes anyway? Only you voting?

If anything I'd like to make it less of a process.

[ATsucks]

What might solve this issue is if people were just allowed to post their submissions themselves. Maybe in knowing who created what from the begining, voters will know from names who are the usuals who put effort into the designs and those who don't. The current hidden identity method encourages people to create designs that they think will appeal to a certain demographic on this forum; if during a certain month, that demographic are people who prefer creations of the car being held up by King Kong because they had no other ideas, then the majority of creators will lose out, and so on.

[pdanev]

Kip you dont get my point at all!!!

This has been discussed before, and its NOT about my chops winning/losing. Do you think im some 5year old that goes crying about his chops not being liked by others?

I think your just unhappy cause not everyone has the same opinion. If you don't agree who came first or so, meh. Its going to happen, cause not everyone is the same.

No! I'm perfectly fine with everyone having his/her own opinion, and that's the way it should be.

And people don't pick what amount of skill went into something, they pick what they like

EXACTLY!!!!! This is not a beauty contsest. This involves skills, and time is invested into this. Photoshopping (IMO) is not about what color someone makes the damn car, or what rims you put on the thing. It has to be techincally well done, it has to fit together, it has to be original and creative.

What proper voting in your eyes anyway? Only you voting?

No comment...

If anything I'd like to make it less of a process.

Quite the opposite is my opinion. If you are going to vote, on something that people have been working on for days(weeks), then I think the proper way to do it is to take 5minutes or your precious time, and look at the chops closely, and evaluate them according several (commonsense) criterias. And not just, oh hey, that dragon car thing looks cool, i like the color, i like the rims, number 1! (and who cares about shadows, perspective, wheels out of place, proportions etc)

Obviously how nice the car is also plays a role in voting, and not a small one. But its NOT the only criteria that a chop should be evaluated against!

[Kip_6666]

Originally Posted by pdanev

EXACTLY!!!!! This is not a beauty contsest. This involves skills, and time is invested into this. Photoshopping (IMO) is not about what color someone makes the damn car, or what rims you put on the thing. It has to be techincally well done, it has to fit together, it has to be original and creative.

Thats what i thought.
Its design. Theres has never been a guideline to vote for skill. And i don't see any reason too either. I liked the monaro that crashed into the light-post more than a riced up ford. It may not have been the best photoshop ever but the idea was fantastic. There are more ways to look at it.

Sure it takes great skill to replace all the tires with neon fusion monkey turds. But i'm not going to vote for something like that cause it's hidious.
Same with all those stickers and flashie bumpers with giant inter-coolers sticking out each side. And every person is different in that way. I'm sure there are some people who'd love that kinda stuff too.

Its the same with normal cars. People look at everything and if it appeals to them. Not if it was the hardest to build or design.


Well thats how i see it, but i can also understand your point of view.

[pdanev]

Well, I dont know, I think most people that took/take part in the competition, evaluate skills as well when voting. At least I did, because it deserves appreciation when someone makes something that is not a 5minute job. Im not saying either that only skills should be taken into account. Im saying that besides looks, there are other factos to consider as well.

For the example of cars, imo, exterior is not everything. Who needs some nice sportscar, with a 1litre diesel engine in it, and a suspension as advanced as a russian military tuck.

Even if you look at design contests, you will find that people dont only evealuate look. They evaluate practicality, how well a certain design would perform in real world, would it be hard to manufacture, how much it will cost to manufacture, will it be cheap to maintain etc. Although the title says "Blah-blah Design Competition", it goes way beyond looks. And same goes for the ps contests here, but with different criteria obviously.

As for the riced up fords, i dont think we have those here anymore, maybe in the 1st competitions when everyone was a beginner to ps and followed step by step online tutorials. Anyway, a riced up ford is as good imo as a pole copy pasted into the front of a car. The one gets credit for good skills, but lack of creativity. The other gets nothing for skills as copy paste doesnt take more than 5seconds, but scores well on creativity. "Bad idea-good implementation" VS "Good idea-bad implementation".

[Kip_6666]

I haven't seen one car, in a proper design competition which looked photorealistic. Its always leaning more towards a design sketch, where not even the proportions are always realistic.
But to say stuff heres gets judged by practicality, how it will perform in the real world ect.. well that expecting a bit too much to be honest.

But yes, it would be nice to get judged by everything. Yet, i think your still laying the wieght on the skill part. If you spend 8 hours making something that doesn't look good, yet is seamless and photoshop perfect. And no one votes for you, well thats the common opinion if enough people vote. You are going to be disapointed.

To take it out on the voters is one thing. But trying to change the system so it suits your needs, meh.


DAmnit, i'm working and keep getting interupted, so I'm not sure if the above makes sense, i'll check it later.

[MXM]

Ok, I've read your opinions, and on the most part I agree. But I don't think you should take the results that seriously. I, for example just like to see what people have done. Sure I'm interested in results, but who comes as 1st isn't the most important thing for me.

But, about voting I wanna say this:

If there were more contestants, I would like to see 2 separate voting criteries: artistic and technical. So you would send top3 judging creativity and top3 judging PS skills. Then organizer gives 3 results, artistic, technical and combined. Whoever wins the combined one is ultimately the winner.
I think this would be better, because I bet there are voters who choose looks over skills or vice-versa, and this way both versions will get credits. I think it's also more fair, as obviously some people here are more skilled then other, but they can compensate it with good taste It will also make voting MUCH easier for me at least, solving the dillema of having to choose between looks and skills.

What do you think?


EDIT: On popular contests like worth1000 people mostly judge creativity it seems, as there are loads of good quality chops. So crappy ones automaticly get voted out, and competition is only between top skilled people. This doesn't work for us, because we have much much less competitors.

[Kip_6666]

The way that is being voted is too much work.
I think that stopping lots of people. Just look how many people voted now, yet I'm sure way more people look at the thread.

A simple poll would be the easiest in my eyes. And more inviting to the readers.
But it will give a very one sided view cause u can only vote for 1 entry that way.

[pdanev]

Originally Posted by Kip_6666

I haven't seen one car, in a proper design competition which looked photorealistic. Its always leaning more towards a design sketch, where not even the proportions are always realistic.
But to say stuff heres gets judged by practicality, how it will perform in the real world ect.. well that expecting a bit too much to be honest.

Nooo, no no! I didnt say that damn it.
I mentioned as an example design competitions. (by that i mean product design, car design etc). For THAT i said, criterias are not only look, but practicality etc. I did NOT say that those judging criterias should be implemented in the ps contest here.

I said:

Originally Posted by pdanev

Even if you look at design contests, you will find that people dont only evealuate look. They evaluate practicality, how well a certain design would perform in real world, would it be hard to manufacture, how much it will cost to manufacture, will it be cheap to maintain etc. Although the title says "Blah-blah Design Competition", it goes way beyond looks. And same goes for the ps contests here, but with different criteria obviously.

Originally Posted by Kip_6666

Yet, i think your still laying the wieght on the skill part. If you spend 8 hours making something that doesn't look good, yet is seamless and photoshop perfect. And no one votes for you, well thats the common opinion if enough people vote. You are going to be disapointed.

No, no and again no!!! I repeated 100times, and now for the 100 and 1st time: I did NOT say that only skills should be take into the account! All I wanted to say that LOOK is NOT everything. Of course its a balance. Like I said with the 2 examples in the post above. If you do a hyper riced car, ps wise perfect, it will only score good on the skill criteria. It would get zero for creativity, probably zero for looks etc. Else, if you only copy paste some concrete post infront of a car, that imo is only credit for creativity, and zero for skills.

Originally Posted by Kip_6666

To take it out on the voters is one thing. But trying to change the system so it suits your needs, meh.

Kip where do you get these absurd accusitions from? Where did I say that we should change the system? And where did i say that we should change the system according to MY point of view? x1000

Neither am I taking this out on the voters. All I said, that this is partly the reason why im not participating anymore. I dont like how certain contests were judged, but since everyone is entitle to his/her opinion, everyone votes as they wish. And since I have a slightly different opinion about the contest, I decided that personally for me it does not make sense to participate anymore.

edit: I like MXM's idea, sounds quite good to me.

[Kip_6666]

Originally Posted by pdanev

Nooo, no no! I didnt say that damn it.
I mentioned as an example design competitions. (by that i mean product design, car design etc). For THAT i said, criterias are not only look, but practicality etc. I did NOT say that those judging criterias should be implemented in the ps contest here.

I said:

No, no and again no!!! I repeated 100times, and now for the 100 and 1st time: I did NOT say that only skills should be take into the account! All I wanted to say that LOOK is NOT everything. Of course its a balance. Like I said with the 2 examples in the post above. If you do a hyper riced car, ps wise perfect, it will only score good on the skill criteria. It would get zero for creativity, probably zero for looks etc. Else, if you only copy paste some concrete post infront of a car, that imo is only credit for creativity, and zero for skills.

Kip where do you get these absurd accusitions from? Where did I say that we should change the system? And where did i say that we should change the system according to MY point of view? x1000

Neither am I taking this out on the voters. All I said, that this is partly the reason why im not participating anymore. I dont like how certain contests were judged, but since everyone is entitle to his/her opinion, everyone votes as they wish. And since I have a slightly different opinion about the contest, I decided that personally for me it does not make sense to participate anymore.

edit: I like MXM's idea, sounds quite good to me.

hehe, it wasn't aimed at you, just a general view of the other side. Not that it's all my opinion.

plus, i think your looking more at technical design in your arguments, which i believe has nothing to do with this. But yes a mix of everything.


ps, not enough people are voteing now, if u make it more labourous i don't see how thats gonna make more peopel vote..