2008 US Presidential Elections

Firecat · January 4th, 2008, 05:05 AM

Perhaps this thread can be used for all the election coverage (caucuses/primaries etc).

The big headline today is that Obama won in Iowa, with something like 38%...Edwards with 30% and Clinton with 29% (last time I checked). Although as far as delegates go, Clinton still has the advantage I believe....and that's more important as it relates to getting the nomination.

Huckabee won the Republican straw poll.

Going into New Hampshire next week...and one step closer to finding out who will eventually lead this country. Obviously things can change (and will), but I have Obama beating Huckabee if it ended up being between the two.

Ottobon · January 4th, 2008, 05:30 AM

Obama is annoying me on two fronts (otherwise seemingly like a great candidate) he keep talking about standing together and being united, and climate change and hope. First of all the reason i like the U.S. is because its divided and different all over, secondly i can't be united with anybody who buys into climate change bullshit, he kept throwing that in like it was some bad plug. And of course not to rub it in, but i have no hope of happiness if this country falls into green politics, at least not without constantly breaking the law.

Uhg, so frustrating, either have your physical being choked by democrats, or your spiritual being strangled by republicans. I choose republicans for now, not because I'm religiously righteous or like wars, but because i hate big government, taxes, and restrictions. And in the end i can always keep my person beliefs with close friends, if we get really green politics theres nothing i can do to keep them from ripping money out of my hands and severely penalize me for moving about the way i choose.

Scooby5 · January 4th, 2008, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ottobon

Obama is annoying me on two fronts (otherwise seemingly like a great candidate) he keep talking about standing together and being united, and climate change and hope. First of all the reason i like the U.S. is because its divided and different all over......

So perhaps if you became president the first thing you would do is change the country's name to DSA..... so you believe United is wrong?

I'm not American but wasn't it the whole Unity thing that built it into what it is now?

Momentum57 · January 4th, 2008, 01:18 PM

^ the United States is built on separations. Federal bows to States rights.

But thats off topic. I am a republican just for the reason that socialism seems like carrying people who are too weak to stand. The drums are for a democrat to come in and try this and watch as the system they set up is raped by people trying to take advantage of it.

The real topics of this race will be immigration, foreign policy and who has not been around Washington for a while. I must remind you that Sen. Barack Hussein Obama might seem like that man but we have not elected a Senator in 47 years.

I admire his win in Iowa but it is a long road to the White House and more states that don't have Red Rover as a voting method. Super Tuesday will be the great decider on this one because I all the major candidates taking a small victory from the early states. It ain't over till the fat lady sings and Bill Clinton has hit on her in a drunken attempt to have a better night than his wife

IVIaster · January 4th, 2008, 02:08 PM

How come this one state is so important? Arent there 49 left?

Tweeke · January 4th, 2008, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IVIaster

How come this one state is so important? Arent there 49 left?

It can change the mindset of those who have yet to vote. People like to vote for winners, that makes the first win so important. In the Netherlands, we say: "De eerste klap is een daalder waard" which translates roughly as: "The first blow is worth an [old dutch coin]" images/smilies/wink.gif

IVIaster · January 4th, 2008, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tweeke

It can change the mindset of those who have yet to vote. People like to vote for winners, that makes the first win so important. In the Netherlands, we say: "De eerste klap is een daalder waard" which translates roughly as: "The first blow is worth an [old dutch coin]" images/smilies/wink.gif

That what I thought so. So why dont they put them on the same day to make it fair?

LurkerPatrol · January 5th, 2008, 12:09 AM

I personally think that Hillary and Edwards are sore losers. They need to get their act together and be ok with getting second place or third place in Iowa. The final poll was close between the 3 candidates (38 for obama, 30 for edwards and 29 for clinton), and yet Edwards was sitting there almost crying about his loss, didn't congratulate Obama or Hillary, and just talked about what he would do as President (rewinding and playing the tape over again). Hillary made a different kind of speech, yet now in New Hampshire she complained about the Iowa voters and is in general making excuses.

I don't think anyone will vote for her if she keeps this up, and I'm not sure Edwards is really going to get the vote. His arguments for yesterday were "Change won, and the status quo lost". Wtf is the status quo he's referring to?

The republican candidates are too ambiguous with their arguments IMO, I'm really all for Obama. It would be great to see an African American president.

Ps. Is it me or does it seem like all the other candidates are taking Obama's "change" theme and then flexing it and misconstruing it to fit and in many cases dominate their original theme? At least I saw that Huckabee and Edwards were really throwing that word around everywhere.

Firecat · January 5th, 2008, 03:09 AM

What's even funnier is that Hillary (in her speech) was talking about "change" as well....with Bill Clinton and Madeline Albright standing right behind her.

Ottobon · January 5th, 2008, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LurkerPatrol

Ps. Is it me or does it seem like all the other candidates are taking Obama's "change" theme and then flexing it and misconstruing it to fit and in many cases dominate their original theme?

Absolutely, he by far and away has the best persona in my opinion, he makes all the other candidates look like flakes and poofs, i just have nightmares about the bullshit that will happen if we get green politics of any sort. Just today a customer with nice hair was shouting about how great of a idea carbon caps were, o man the temptation i had to hold down to keep myself from speaking up. Sorry if this is completely the wrong thread, just don't know where to vent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Momentum57

But thats off topic. I am a republican just for the reason that socialism seems like carrying people who are too weak to stand.

I don't think the problem is supporting those that are too weak to stand, its more that socialism slaps people in the face the more they try to do, and then gives them candy if they give up.

LurkerPatrol · January 5th, 2008, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firecat

What's even funnier is that Hillary (in her speech) was talking about "change" as well....with Bill Clinton and Madeline Albright standing right behind her.

Ahahaha totally. And what's the change that Huckabee is bringing to the white house? Walker, Texas ranger of course images/smilies/tongue.gif

I really and seriously hope that people pass that adlib of Hillary calling Iowa voters crap on youtube resulting in a dramatic decrease in voters for her everywhere.

I love the lineup we have (in terms of those that came 2nd and lower). We have a crybaby (Edwards), a thief(Rudy), Chuck Norris, and whining excuse-generating robotic psycho bitches (Hillary and the others). We could make a sitcom using these guys. If you have any more nicknames let's get them out there.

Ottobon: Since this is the election thread, its pertinent, don't worry about it.

Firecat · January 5th, 2008, 06:18 PM

Tonight the repubs and dems have debates on ABC. I'll be tuning in for this one.

I don't agree with what Hillary and Obama say etc, and if either were president i'd probably despise them as well....but I will admit that solely because they are "different" (female/black) there are still some positives that will come out of having one of them win, versus any of the other frontrunners that have equally as bad positions on the issues.

Werner · January 5th, 2008, 06:46 PM

Here in the Netherlands a newspaper made a sort of 'test', excisting of about 20 questions. After you filled them all in you get a result, giving you the answer on the question 'who fits best to my political' ideas. It actually cleared it up for me as i find U.S. elections always a bit confusing to follow.

the app said i should vote for Obama (or Clinton) if i were an American.

LurkerPatrol · January 5th, 2008, 06:46 PM

Agreed Firecat.

Huckabee is the most charismatic republican, all the rest are just old white guys with saggy chins and bald heads saying the same things over and over again.

I'm not sure if Obama will be able to tackle all the issues but he is a role model. IMHO, he really does have leadership qualities and almost even an heroic aura about him. I don't think I could really look up to any of the other candidates like that. But nevertheless, he does lose it when it comes to debating the other brick walls we call candidates and I agree with you about their position on the issues.

jayhawk · January 5th, 2008, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LurkerPatrol

I'm really all for Obama. It would be great to see an African American president.

Who cares what "race" he is, sex, religion, etc. he is? The sooner you, and most importantly the American people, start focusing on each candidate's merit's, the sooner we will drop this annoying habit of dividing humans into little subdivisions and start regarding ourselves as Americans, and only Americans, the stronger our nation will be.

So, stepping away from the notion of "race" (aren't we all one race, the human race?) there is no substance behind his words. None. He has great charisma and a wonderful personality, but he is, like Clinton, a babe in the woods. We in Illinois said the same things about him as America is saying now, sent him to Washington, and we are still waiting for him to do his job. The other reason is, picking apart his congratulatory speech from Thursday night, is that he is all for bi-partisanship.

That cannot be done in a true democracy, as that is verging towards a dictatorship. You NEED friction between political parties, otherwise only one side will benefit, and no compromises between both parties would exist. If there is a German reading this, could you inform me of how many political parties are represented in your parliament? I know it is many, and I willing to bet there is little bi-partisanship.

Lastly, I would never vote for him because he is an out and out socialist, and I think socialism is bad for America, to put it simply. I am sure someone from a socialist country is going to speak up on this, but that is your country, not mine. What works for X country may not work for Y country. Government is a necessary evil, but the less of it in my life the more freedom I have. And America will see him for what he is and stands for in the coming months if he nominated for President.

Think about it; the last time America voted for a socialist president was Carter, and look how fast we got him out of office. Then Regan was voted twice and he ran as an out and out conservative. Bush the first ran as a moderate, so did Clinton, don't fool yourself that he ran on a liberal platform, I remember 1992 and 1996 clearly. Bush the second ran as a conservative both times...uh, see the pattern? America does not want a socialist president. Nobody looks back to the Carter years with happy feelings, and let me tell you, once he was in the White House, it was all status quo.

Cobol74 · January 5th, 2008, 07:35 PM

^ Franklin D. Roosevelt was sort of socialist and did, I think, a good job?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/fr32.html

May not be right sort of policies for now though?

jayhawk · January 5th, 2008, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobol74

^ Franklin D. Roosevelt was sort of socialist and did, I think, a good job?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/fr32.html

oMay not be right sort of policies for now though?

Two examples from the link really stood out to me, and from them I can argue on why I think socialism is bad for America, and especially, the evils of "good intentions".

Firstly, FDR's introduction of Social Security. During the lean times of the Great Depression, Social Security was introduced for pensioners who lost everything to get a little stipend from the government, furnished by people who are working. Sounds great, right? Fast forward seventy some years and it nows takes two working people to pay for every one receiver of Social Security.

The program obviously had good intentions, right? But here is the ugly side: by letting a government entity manage money, they bungled it, and now the middle class is the ones who suffer, by having money extorted from them all the name of good intentions. Believe it or not, there are people in America who, instead of privately saving and investing their money, they are now virtually indentured servants to the government on the

January 4th, 2008, 05:05 AM	#1
Firecat Politically Charged Joined: Mar 23rd, 2005 Last Online: 07:12 AM Posts: 3,510 Rep Power: 25	2008 US Presidential Elections Perhaps this thread can be used for all the election coverage (caucuses/primaries etc). The big headline today is that Obama won in Iowa, with something like 38%...Edwards with 30% and Clinton with 29% (last time I checked). Although as far as delegates go, Clinton still has the advantage I believe....and that's more important as it relates to getting the nomination. Huckabee won the Republican straw poll. Going into New Hampshire next week...and one step closer to finding out who will eventually lead this country. Obviously things can change (and will), but I have Obama beating Huckabee if it ended up being between the two. __________________

January 4th, 2008, 01:18 PM	#4
Momentum57 Joined: Aug 26th, 2005 Last Online: 07:14 AM Location: Manlius Outside of Syracuse Age: 24 Posts: 1,045 Car: Jaguar X-Type 3.0 Rep Power: 16	^ the United States is built on separations. Federal bows to States rights. But thats off topic. I am a republican just for the reason that socialism seems like carrying people who are too weak to stand. The drums are for a democrat to come in and try this and watch as the system they set up is raped by people trying to take advantage of it. The real topics of this race will be immigration, foreign policy and who has not been around Washington for a while. I must remind you that Sen. Barack Hussein Obama might seem like that man but we have not elected a Senator in 47 years. I admire his win in Iowa but it is a long road to the White House and more states that don't have Red Rover as a voting method. Super Tuesday will be the great decider on this one because I all the major candidates taking a small victory from the early states. It ain't over till the fat lady sings and Bill Clinton has hit on her in a drunken attempt to have a better night than his wife __________________

January 4th, 2008, 02:08 PM	#5
IVIaster Not a dude. Joined: Dec 10th, 2005 Last Online: Yesterday Location: Finland Posts: 941 Car: 1990 Volvo 740 Rep Power: 12	How come this one state is so important? Arent there 49 left? __________________ IVIaster´s gender is currently under review If you think roadtax is a good thing go to www.iamaclot.com

January 5th, 2008, 12:09 AM	#8
LurkerPatrol Joined: Apr 24th, 2006 Last Online: 03:39 AM Location: Berkeley & San Diego, California Age: 21 Posts: 1,340 Car: Invisible boatmobile Rep Power: 48	I personally think that Hillary and Edwards are sore losers. They need to get their act together and be ok with getting second place or third place in Iowa. The final poll was close between the 3 candidates (38 for obama, 30 for edwards and 29 for clinton), and yet Edwards was sitting there almost crying about his loss, didn't congratulate Obama or Hillary, and just talked about what he would do as President (rewinding and playing the tape over again). Hillary made a different kind of speech, yet now in New Hampshire she complained about the Iowa voters and is in general making excuses. I don't think anyone will vote for her if she keeps this up, and I'm not sure Edwards is really going to get the vote. His arguments for yesterday were "Change won, and the status quo lost". Wtf is the status quo he's referring to? The republican candidates are too ambiguous with their arguments IMO, I'm really all for Obama. It would be great to see an African American president. Ps. Is it me or does it seem like all the other candidates are taking Obama's "change" theme and then flexing it and misconstruing it to fit and in many cases dominate their original theme? At least I saw that Huckabee and Edwards were really throwing that word around everywhere. __________________ <-Pandamonium

January 5th, 2008, 03:09 AM	#9
Firecat Politically Charged Joined: Mar 23rd, 2005 Last Online: 07:12 AM Posts: 3,510 Rep Power: 25	What's even funnier is that Hillary (in her speech) was talking about "change" as well....with Bill Clinton and Madeline Albright standing right behind her. __________________

January 4th, 2008, 05:30 AM	#2
Ottobon Joined: Nov 27th, 2005 Last Online: 04:55 AM Posts: 2,919 Car: Too many Rep Power: 25	Obama is annoying me on two fronts (otherwise seemingly like a great candidate) he keep talking about standing together and being united, and climate change and hope. First of all the reason i like the U.S. is because its divided and different all over, secondly i can't be united with anybody who buys into climate change bullshit, he kept throwing that in like it was some bad plug. And of course not to rub it in, but i have no hope of happiness if this country falls into green politics, at least not without constantly breaking the law. Uhg, so frustrating, either have your physical being choked by democrats, or your spiritual being strangled by republicans. I choose republicans for now, not because I'm religiously righteous or like wars, but because i hate big government, taxes, and restrictions. And in the end i can always keep my person beliefs with close friends, if we get really green politics theres nothing i can do to keep them from ripping money out of my hands and severely penalize me for moving about the way i choose.

January 5th, 2008, 06:18 PM	#12
Firecat Politically Charged Joined: Mar 23rd, 2005 Last Online: 07:12 AM Posts: 3,510 Rep Power: 25	Tonight the repubs and dems have debates on ABC. I'll be tuning in for this one. I don't agree with what Hillary and Obama say etc, and if either were president i'd probably despise them as well....but I will admit that solely because they are "different" (female/black) there are still some positives that will come out of having one of them win, versus any of the other frontrunners that have equally as bad positions on the issues. __________________

January 5th, 2008, 06:46 PM	#13
Werner Joined: Oct 22nd, 2005 Last Online: 06:40 AM Location: Netherlands Age: 19 Posts: 435 Rep Power: 22	Here in the Netherlands a newspaper made a sort of 'test', excisting of about 20 questions. After you filled them all in you get a result, giving you the answer on the question 'who fits best to my political' ideas. It actually cleared it up for me as i find U.S. elections always a bit confusing to follow. the app said i should vote for Obama (or Clinton) if i were an American. __________________ Vectors : Top Gear Lacetti : Camaro RS : Ferrari Enzo : Koenigsegg CCX : Audi R8 : Nissan GT-R

January 5th, 2008, 07:35 PM	#16
Cobol74 Joined: Mar 21st, 2006 Last Online: 07:20 AM Location: Southampton Posts: 5,226 Car: Vauxhall Zafira 1.9 TDI Slush box. Rep Power: 43	^ Franklin D. Roosevelt was sort of socialist and did, I think, a good job? http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/fr32.html May not be right sort of policies for now though? __________________ Strewth mate another whinging pom! Build the Severn Barrage NOW!