9/11 - 5 Year Anniversary

[teletubby-warrior]

I decided to make a thread so that people could voice their opinions. Feel free to discuss anything relating to the disaster and it's lingering effects in society, media, etc... CNN is supposedly airing the entire first day of coverage in the original, un-cut timeline.

Please be respectful by staying on topic.

[ESPNSTI]

It surprised me today as they showed all these specials and documentaries, how unsettled I still am about it.

[zaybxcwd12]

I downloaded CNN the first 197 minutes over the weekend and it was almost as shocking as the 1st time round.

[Scott]

I get so angry and so sad at the same time... seeing that replayed as it happened it just too much to describe.

[Blind_Io]

It still makes me want to do horrible things to those responsible. I mean really bad things. REALLY bad. I'm not going to say what and give all you guys more nightmares, but to quote a movie line, "Hell will seem like heaven by the time I get done with 'em."

EDIT: This does not mean that I support the war in Iraq, I actually want to do bad things to the people responsible.

[Peter3hg]

Originally Posted by Blind_Io

It still makes me want to do horrible things to those responsible. I mean really bad things. REALLY bad. I'm not going to say what and give all you guys more nightmares, but to quote a movie line, "Hell will seem like heaven by the time I get done with 'em."

EDIT: This does not mean that I support the war in Iraq, I actually want to do bad things to the people responsible.

Before I say this I don't condone this or any terrorist activity from any country or religion.

Don't you think that, that is slightly unfair, these people may seem evil to you (and I) but they are fighting for something they believe in.
I'm sure a lot of Japanese felt the same way after the US dropped the two A-Bombs.
Most of these people are brainwashed and see the West as evil to probably a greater extent than you do to them.
Remember one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter (a good example is Nelson Mandela who was condemed as a terrorist for many years).
And before you start hating me read my first sentence again.

Edit//
Sorry forgot to say RIP to all those innocent victims.

[KaJuN]

I think I'm going to have to agree with peter on this one. I admit that, just a few years ago even, I was naive to why so many people around the world hate us. Then we started Bush's foreign policy of waving our dick size around and it all started making sense to me why so many people see us as the bad guys. To tell you the truth, I kinda agree with them sometimes. Who's to say it's our job to decide what's right for the rest of the world?

As for the thread topic, R.I.P. to all those of five years ago. It really does seem like only yesterday.

[zenkidori]

Don't you think that, that is slightly unfair, these people may seem evil to you (and I) but they are fighting for something they believe in.

That's such bullshit.

I'm sure a lot of Japanese felt the same way after the US dropped the two A-Bombs.

And who could possibly blame them?

Most of these people are brainwashed and see the West as evil to probably a greater extent than you do to them.

and that makes them less guilty, vicious, evil and or low?

Remember one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter (a good example is Nelson Mandela who was condemed as a terrorist for many years).

Mandela wasn't a mass murderer and didn't fly airliners full of people into 100% civilian buildings killing thousands. Or orchastrate bombings on public transportation systems, or cut of the heads of civilians, or send children into crowded public places with explosives strapped to them while threatening thier parents.

big fucking difference.

[zenkidori]

back OT, i remember hearing the report on the radio station on the way from one school to another, and hearing the DJs talk in disbelief and think it was a hoax, then an accident, then bewilderment as the next plane crashed. Then I remember some kid nearly getting sent to the hospital because he was saying he wanted to "kill all sand niggers" and that set about 90% of the school off looking for him. I remember some teachers refusing to even talk about it, and others having TVs in thier classrooms tuned to CNN. Crazy day.

[Peter3hg]

Originally Posted by zenkidori

That's such bullshit.

Why? Are you saying they don't believe in what they fight for?

and that makes them less guilty, vicious, evil and or low?

In the same way that does it make your presence in Afghanistan and Iraq any less guilty, vicious, evil and or low (not my personal view).

Mandela wasn't a mass murderer and didn't fly airliners full of people into 100% civilian buildings killing thousands. Or orchastrate bombings on public transportation systems, or cut of the heads of civilians, or send children into crowded public places with explosives strapped to them while threatening thier parents.

big fucking difference.

I was not comparing Mandela to these people, I was just using him as an example to how there are always two sides/interpretations to every story.

Again I don't condone these activities and lets not let this become a flame war (I know I started it). Lets just commemorate the lifes tragically lost.

[Blind_Io]

First of all, the policies under Bush were not in place when the attacks of Sept 11, 01 were planned, Bush was still wet behind the ears. The attacks were planned while Clinton was in office, a man who did go through the UN and was soft internationally. That does not mean that Bush's approach was right, but it does indicated that US foreign policy is not the motivating factor.

The people who are willing to strap bombs to themselves and blow up busses and discos, or fly planes full of people into buildings are dangerous. Period. They have no respect for human life and see taking the lives of their enemies as a holy crusade. There is no way to fight ideology like that, it just can't be done. You can pull ever western person out of the middle east, pull out the businesses, pull out of the oil industry, disolve Israel and it won't matter. The existence of a society where women can dress themselves, work, vote and hold positions of power is directly opposed by the people who carried out these attacks. It's not western policy that they wish to undermine, they wish to destroy our culture and have said so in their statements, audio and video releases.

I'm conflicted. I don't like war (those with military family members never do), and I don't think it's right that we are doing some of the things that we are, but what did those people in the WTC do to deserve their fate? What did their families do to deserve watching loved ones have to choose between being burned alive, crushed or to jump to their death? Remember that this was before the current war in Iraq - Desert Storm was a UN operation.

Yes, I still get angry when I think about it, and damnit I should be angry. You should be angry. That does not mean that we should lash out indescriminately, but we should focus the effort to finding the people who are responsible - all of them.

The world is becomming more and more divided, with a deepening rift between the fundamentalists and western society. If they were content to stay in their sandbox corner of the world and run things the way they want I would be fine with that - sorry for all the people who live under that oppressive rule, but I wouldn't do anything about it. Yes, the western world - including the US - has made mistakes, but we never used civilian airliners as weapons.

You can go on all you want about how one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. These people are not fighting for freedom, they are fighting to continue oppression. Oppression of will, ideas, speach, women, other tribes, other belief systems. If they were fighting for freedom they would not have highjacked airliners and flown them into buildings, they would not have bombed flights in Tel Aviv and Scotland. They don't even need to ask the west for freedom, they have the ability to take it themselves, these terroist attacks are just the few who rule by fear staying in controll over their corner of the world and trying to export their deranged sense of religious superriority and closed minded bigorty to everyone else.

Rant over. I know that I'm going to be ripped a new one for this, but it's how I feel. Just remember that I oppose the war in Iraq and I think that we do need to change our poilcy, but that does not keep me from being angry about what these bastards did. One can be tried for his actions, not his thoughts - and although I think about the things I sometimes would like to do to these poeple the difference between me and them is that I don't do it. I don't get on a plane or a bus with a bomb while they do. So flame away everyone.

My thoughts are with the survirors of the attacks and the families of those who perished this day 5 years ago.

[zaybxcwd12]

"'m sure a lot of Japanese felt the same way after the US dropped the two A-Bombs. "

Maybe they did, maybe they didn't, however Japan was a country that attacked another country and at Peral harbour while civillians where killed it was a military target and a direct attack. Why highlight Nagasaki or Hiroshima rather than Dresden offical estamtes where sky high. The two A bomb attacks saved not only allied lives but Japanesse also. Dresden achived nothing.

I can'r see how believeing in a cause is a factor. commiting a terrorist attrocity does nothing for your cause, if anything it weakens it. After the initial shock your "advisory" comes together and there resolve is stonger followed by world wide comdenation.

[jayhawk]

From Winston Churchill:
"we shall prove ourselves once again able to defend our Island home, to ride out the storm of war, and to outlive the menace of tyranny, if necessary for years, if necessary alone. At any rate, that is what we are going to try to do. That is the resolve of His Majesty's Government-every man of them. That is the will of Parliament and the nation. The British Empire and the French Republic, linked together in their cause and in their need, will defend to the death their native soil, aiding each other like good comrades to the utmost of their strength. Even though large tracts of Europe and many old and famous States have fallen or may fall into the grip of the Gestapo and all the odious apparatus of Nazi rule, we shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender, and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, this Island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, would carry on the struggle, until, in God's good time, the New World, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old."

Still rings true today. God bless the ones who have suffered.

[FATMOUSE]

Originally Posted by peter3hg2

for something they believe in.

That may be the case. However, a warlike organization should never go after innocent civilians, no matter how strong their conviction. It casts doubt over their motives, and is an assholic thing to do.

[jetsetter]

Lets just hope that something like 9/11 does not happen again because if it does I'm not sure if the US will have as much restraint as last time.

RIP to the fallen.

[D-Fence]

RIP to the innocent people killed.


Anyways, I agree with peter & Kajun, America´s politic really screamed for something like this to happen....and I am pretty sure it will happen again, like it happened in Madrid, London and ALMOST in Germany a month ago (luckily the bombers in Germany were morons and misconstructed their bombs :/). It´s just a shame, that innocent people get killed, the planes should have hit political targets like the white house (not that I mean they should hit something over all, but better the white house than the WTC).

Sad Sad day......but remember America: You are not the only ones getting attacked by terrorists.

[Peter3hg]

Originally Posted by D-Fence

ALMOST in Germany a month ago (luckily the bombers in Germany were morons and misconstructed their bombs :/).

I'm really glad they had misconstructed them. I left Dortmund about 6 hours before they found that one and then they found the on ein Koblenz literally ten minutes after I had left the station
And then to cap it all off they had to do a controlled explosion on a bag in Koln-Bonn airport when we were waiting for our plane.

[osabros]

Originally Posted by D-Fence

(luckily the bombers in Germany were morons and misconstructed their bombs :/).

and luckily the mossad was there to warn the german government

[un-dee]

Where did you get that from? The bombs were found when they already should have ignited, they just didn't work.