atheist and non-believers, are you offended?

[Jostyrostelli]

Thanks for explaining.

But I have a huge problem with this quote

Originally Posted by Jeffy

Yes, He can stop it at any time, but what kind of a lesson would that teach us?

When I talk to a religious person, the main thing he says is: "God loves everybody, you too"
A parent loves his kid too, and I understand what you mean by that comparisson.
But, a really huge BUT, I would love my son or daughter, and I would let it experience wrong things in life, like putting his finger in a candle, and let him experience the thing he won't do anymore after that. But, if he get's seriously hurt (or could die), do you think I would let him do that? If he was about to put a screwdriver in a 220Volt socket, I would take him away and tell him to not do that.
I would do that because I love him, and I want him to learn as much things himself, but I love him, so I would protect him too, if he would die.

How bad does God want to teach us, he wants to let innocent people to get killed to learn the killer something...right..

May seem a bit offensive, but it's not, can't really explain it that well..but I think it's somehow clear now...

[jayjaya29]

Religion confuses me sometimes, and all this talk is proof, I have no idea what you religious people are talking about with god forgiving and having control, but not, bah.

I just think that religion was invented/made up to give people power over the masses.

[jeffy777]

Josty: I don't have all the answers and it's hard for me to tranlates my thoughts into words sometimes All of this makes perfect sense in my mind, but it's hard for me to explain. So please don't put too much emphasis on things I say because I admit that I am not a good explainer

If God were too controlling and restrictive, then we would complain that He isn't giving us enough freedom and He is too stern. Instead, God is allowing us all the freedom we want as a human race and most everyone is abusing that privelage. So in His wisdom, He is basically letting evil have it's reign on earth as a demonstration of what a world will become with evil in the equation. When it has reached a certain point at a future day then He will step in to put a stop to evil once and for all, after which we won't want it anymore. I'm sure it "breaks his heart" to see people suffer, but He must realize that this is what it is going to take in order for us to decide that sin and evil is a bad thing. He has a plan to give us eteranl happiness apart from pain and sorrow, and we will truly appreciate that after we have experienced the alternative. Becasue we have seen and felt the results of sin and trying to do things apart from God, we will never want to choose it again.

Originally Posted by jayjaya29

I just think that religion was invented/made up to give people power over the masses.

And I think that evolution was made up because people didn't want to be accountable to God.

[jayjaya29]

But evolution has scientific proof, more then so creationism, and I think that one day evolution will be a fact and not a theory. But this discussion belongs in another thread.

I still think that religions were made up by people to gain power over the masses. Once this took hold, the people relied on it to guide them through life and into "heaven". The though of a supernatural ruling force has been around since humans have been able to consciously think by themselves and not act upon instinct. I think the belief of a god is a way to cope with the ablity to consciously think and act. But now, I think evolution is occuring, where man doesn't need a "guiding" supernatural force to help them through life.

I don't think that made sense.

[Jostyrostelli]

Jeffy: I could understand why you're saying that and how you think about it. It's just something that is not something I can 'accept', not the right word..

Originally Posted by Jayjay

But evolution has scientific proof

I do understand this, it's how I think. I'm more like, if you can't see or touch it, it's not there, if we're talking about God, or Jesus.
I, too, think that faith in God is something 'invented' (not to offend anyone), masses of people want leadership, so they seek one.

The biggest problem I have, is that I want to see facts, did Jesus really exist, did this all happen? Or did someone make this up, and wrote something...?

Also, I don't see the benefit or believing. I am what I am, good or bad, and believing in a 'higher power' or whatever you like to call it, it's not gonna make me a better person. I think believing in God only puts restrictions on your life. Always checking if the things you do are appropirate according to the Bible.

I was raised with the idea that there is atleast something between earth and space, not nessecarily God. But I don't understand how you can think there is this invisible 'thing' that made the world and is looking down on us.

[Jostyrostelli]

Talking to Justin on MSN now, maybe this clears things up..(I finally found the right words..yoohoo)

Originally Posted by me

but would you believe that, for example ehh lets that some people can talk to plants, and they say they talk back, it's just like that for me, it's something I can't understand because the plant has never spoken to me

[jayjaya29]

Wow, that is a good way to put it.

[jeffy777]

Well, I know we have a whole thread about it, but guys there just isn't any solid proof for evolution. In fact, it's a mathematical impossibility (and I can post more about that in that thread if you're interested), and any thing that shows that evolution is false actually shows that God exists if you really truly think about it with an open mind.

[jayjaya29]

Well if you believe in Creationism then truely you believe in god.

But you can believe in evolution and still be semi-religious.

Studying about evolution in my science class really showed me that evolution can work. Post the mathematical stuff in the other thread, I would like to read it.

[Yayox]

Originally Posted by justin syder

Well said!

Its not that God forces you to believe, ultimately you have to choice to believe or not.

Yayox-

I have heard that all too often. I believe there is a God but not this or that. You can't pick and choose what parts of religion you like and dont like. Being a casual believer is the way God intended it to be. You have to be a bit more committed than that. Im not perfect or better than anyone else that believes but I do know that faith is much more than being a casual believer.

You are right and I believe that the bible is rigth when it says that good does not one people that cold at heart or somehting like that... sorry but I dont know the bibble in english is just that I cannot stand religious hipocracy... maybe I havent find the write religion for me... I like the cientific religion the one where people like travolta go... there filosofy seems right... but once they start asking for money... it seems fishy to me.

Originally Posted by justin syder

If someone wants to "save you" then what is bad about that? You could always say no or that you dont believe in God. "If someone wants to be on God's good side by preaching..." What does that mean? You dont get a discount at heaven or money for preaching you do it because you want to. You agree with the words of God and you want to share it with others, what is harmful about that?

[/quote]

Yes that is how it should be.. but somehow.. I dont feel that is totally honest.. specially with extreme cristian people... (No ofense to anyone) and I dont want to be part of a religion where people is not being honest about their feelings. and is not only christian... other religons as well so how do you find your own path.... christ say.. your body is your own temple... does that mean.. that you can find your own path to god?

Originally Posted by justin syder

Maybe Jehova's witnesses are a bit pushy, I have dealt with them on many occasions, but all you say is that you wish that they respect your decision not to be preached at. If you get mad or agry then they'll just come back, trust me. They'll think, man this person is full of rage and needs god. We have to try to reach him.

I realized that wasn't working and anger really gets me no where, just as it has when I debated sometimes with fierce comments and arrogant opinions. So one time they came over and I said, "I'm Christian as well but I just ask that you respect my religion and view and not come back. You would be wasting your time if you do." I said that in a polite way and they agreed and haven't been back since.

[Jostyrostelli]

Wow you fucked up that post

Could you edit it?

[Yayox]

Originally Posted by Jostyrostelli

Wow you fucked up that post

Could you edit it?

Is that better? sorry my spelling... english is hard when i have my boss talking stupidity.. while Im trying to write a post

[SHiFTiR]

i've always had a problem with organized religion. one they force you to do this do that...well not force you...but you look bad if you dun do what the "norm" is. then there's that whole devote yourself thing...kinda scary...then...cmon donating to the church/or whatever the counter part is fer other religions? ionno about you guys, but to me church is just a place to hold the gatherings, not a freaking museum.

ppl should jsut believe whatever they damn want to believe in. we shouldnt have some priest/clergyman herrasing us telling us if we betray god we're gonna go to hell. we should just slap those silly #*&$*(@#&$ upside their head....

and also, religious history scared the shit outa me...so why would someone have faith in some system that swore to kill every non-believe on the face of earth...how could you guys believe in such a system where countries would go to war due to religious conflict in the past. how can ppl devote themselves to a system where every nonbelieve is treated as the devil?

if there's one religion that i can kinda trust, it's buddism...dunno much about it...but at least i dunno of any history of buddist monks killing christians. and the fact that buddist monk restrain themselves from enterin the political sphere kinda puts me at ease....then there's the pope...not a evil man...but what does catholics got to do with terrorism attacks? tell me! what does the pope got to do with anything besides his religion?

[justin syder]

i've always had a problem with organized religion. one they force you to do this do that...well not force you...but you look bad if you dun do what the "norm" is. then there's that whole devote yourself thing...kinda scary...then...cmon donating to the church/or whatever the counter part is fer other religions? ionno about you guys, but to me church is just a place to hold the gatherings, not a freaking museum.

In my church no one is forced to offer and when you do you do it because you want to not because you have to.

People abuse religion by their actions of misinterpreting it. I could also show you a case in which nice Buddhists monks act unholy or not show restraint.

KOCHI, India, January 22 (Compass) -- Christians suffered further violence in the Buddhist-majority country of Sri Lanka on January 20, when a Catholic church was attacked near the capital, Colombo, despite the presence of a heavily armed police guard.

http://www.worthynews.com/christian-...sri-lanka.html

The violence started when a group of Burmese Buddhists attacked shops and restaurants owned by Muslims in the central town area.

http://hrw.org/backgrounder/asia/burma-bck4.htm


So because you are Christian or Muslim you are persecuted. Not much tolerance or restraint by so-called nice monks you speak of. There are ppl of all faiths that misinterpret or disgrace the religiojn by their actions. Again that doesnt make religion bad just the few ppl that are doing wrong.

[Kimble]

Originally Posted by justin syder

Its not just "behaving", it is more like rejecting many of the things of this will which can consume you. Ill give you an example. A perfect case of a lost soul is Kimble, the Gumball rally guy. He has shit loads of money, can buy anything he wants or almost anything, is very intelligent but what does he have? He constantly pushes his life to the limit and has said that if he dies he will have lived a great life. It is clear he is not happy and he has let the things material of this world consume him. Can you say he is happy?

I think you’ll find, I am very happy, thank you. I also think you’ll find you’re very jealous.

[Raheel]

Kimble, that is a major bump of a dead discussion, and what you have said has nothing to contribute to the discussion, it is supposed to be a debate.

[bihus]

Originally Posted by raheel_qamar

Kimble, that is a major bump of a dead discussion, and what you have said has nothing to contribute to the discussion, it is supposed to be a debate.

It isn't Kimble, it's "someone" looking for attention...

[Raheel]

i know that....... what an intresting event..... hey Kimble send me an autograph pl

[FATMOUSE]

Here's an acceptable resolution. Evolution is true, but God did the whole Big Bang business.

Sounds like a good compromise, no?

[jayjaya29]

No, its not, either a God exists and he/she is responsible for everything or there is not god at all. I opt for the second choice.