Bloody Califonians at it again

[Blind_Io]

http://mensnewsdaily.com/2006/08/26/...lifornia-is/?3

Apparently Califonia is trying to get all firearms to stamp the serial number of the weapon on the shell casings.


Let's get the obvious out of the way:
1- Criminals will get guns that don't do this
2- Where do you plan to "Stamp" the serial number that won't interfere with the shell ejection? I hear the primer is nice and soft.
3-

4-


Why do they insist on wasting time and money on stupid laws like this? Gun laws don't reduce crime. In California, if I am assaulted by someone who just broke down my door and is high on PCP or Meth, I have to first determine if they have a weapon and then I can only respond with an equal amount of force. Bollocks! If someone breaks down my door I should be able to blow him out of his boots to defend myself and my family. Back home in Utah, as well as Texas, Colorado, and most other western states (not on the "left coast") the law states that if someone breaks into your home you can shoot them with a howitzer and it's legal - not recommended because of the mess, but legal. I'm all for that. Salt Lake City has so few shootings that if we make it to 10 in a year its a really bad year. Here in Richmond shootings are so common they don't even lead the weather report. That's ok, we're all safe from the bad men because the guns are illegal.

I've got my tactical shotgun, and I'm not afraid to use it! (really wish I had an AR-15 or an M-14 and a pistol too).

</rant>

[FATMOUSE]

Nice thought, poor execution. Seems pretty ordinary.

[TomCat]

I heard somewhere that stamping the numbers on the shells would cost like $1.00 per shell. And suddenly that $16 100round box of Walmart ammo will cost you $120. Which is in violation of the 2nd amendment since the government cannot allow such outrageous obstacles and charges to get in the way of your Rights.

It would be no different then charging citizens $100.00 to vote for the next president.

[zenkidori]

It's a well intentioned law but it won't do shit. Criminals use illegal weapons, and anything that can stamp a number into something can be filed off with a $.20 file in about half a hour, if that. Like most gun laws, this just makes it harder on the legitimate users.

[Lilleput]

Originally Posted by TomCat

that $16 100round box of Walmart ammo

That made me laugh

Oh man we live in two very different countries

[Peter3hg]

Good idea if they can make it work cheaply. It won't stop gangs or criminals much but it would make it easier to solve impulse shootings.

[hanasand]

Idiot Americans with idiot gunlaws.

First of all, give me one fucking good reason for why you should be allowed to own for instance an assault rifle?

"Oh well, I once went to a shooting-range, and uh, I want to protect my family!"

Problem is this, those guns that are so easily accessible so that you can "protect" your
family are the same being used to commit crimes. And here the
paradoxal problem of this self-defense bullshit lies.

So, ban assault rifles, revolvers, and all those sorts of show off weapons for weapon-fetishist rednecks
and criminals. Then only allow private purchase of a few weapons strictly meant
for hunting purposes.

[teletubby-warrior]

Originally Posted by hanasand

Idiot Americans with idiot gunlaws.

First of all, give me one fucking good reason for why you should be allowed to own for instance an assault rifle?

Simply because I can. That's the best reason anyone can give. You do not understand that, which is fine. The problem is that you are telling me what I should be allowed to own. I would like you to give me one good reason why I shouldn't be allowed to legally own a firearm.

Originally Posted by hanasand

Problem is this, those guns that are so easily accessible so that you can "protect" your
family are the same being used to commit crimes.

First of all,most Americans do not use assault rifles to protect their loved ones. That would like carving a turkey with a chainsaw. Secondly, the magic word in that quote is "used". The guns are being used by people to commit crimes. A gun is completely harmless. I have never seen a gun load itself, aim, and pull it's trigger.

Originally Posted by hanasand

Then only allow private purchase of a few weapons strictly meant for hunting purposes.

So hunting is more important than your family's security? Some jagbag has the right to shoot deer, but I shouldn't be allowed to own a shotgun? you

[Peter3hg]

[quote="teletubby-warrior"]

Originally Posted by hanasand

First of all,most Americans do not use assault rifles to protect their loved ones. That would like carving a turkey with a chainsaw. Secondly, the magic word in that quote is "used". The guns are being used by people to commit crimes. A gun is completely harmless. I have never seen a gun load itself, aim, and pull it's trigger.

Actually loads of guns have been developed that are fully automatic but thats beside the point.

[teletubby-warrior]

Originally Posted by peter3hg2

Actually loads of guns have been developed that are fully automatic but thats beside the point.

Yeah, I was referring to guns that aren't automated.

[TomCat]

Originally Posted by hanasand

Idiot Americans with idiot gunlaws.

First of all, give me one fucking good reason for why you should be allowed to own for instance an assault rifle?

Do you have any idea what an "Assault Rifle" is? A true-blue Assault Weapon is fully automatic and automatic weapons are almost completely illegal in the US. So to answer your question... We can't own Assault Rifles.

Originally Posted by hanasand

Problem is this, those guns that are so easily accessible so that you can "protect" your family are the same being used to commit crimes. And here the paradoxal problem of this self-defense bullshit lies.

The Right to own a gun is guaranteed in our Constitution, so the Government has to be extremely careful how they impede that Right. There are around 20,000 Gun Laws in the USA, criminals just don't care. 80% of crimes are committed by repeat offenders. And Self Defense is a natural born right.

Originally Posted by hanasand

So, ban assault rifles, revolvers, and all those sorts of show off weapons for weapon-fetishist rednecks and criminals. Then only allow private purchase of a few weapons strictly meant for hunting purposes.

The reason we're allowed to own guns in the first place has nothing to do with hunting.

[osabros]

what i don't get is that in other places around the world people don't need guns to protect themselves. is there really so much crime in the US that you need a gun for protection??
is an honest question.

[Blind_Io]

Originally Posted by hanasand

Idiot Americans with idiot gunlaws.

First of all, give me one fucking good reason for why you should be allowed to own for instance an assault rifle?

"Oh well, I once went to a shooting-range, and uh, I want to protect my family!"

Problem is this, those guns that are so easily accessible so that you can "protect" your
family are the same being used to commit crimes. And here the
paradoxal problem of this self-defense bullshit lies.

So, ban assault rifles, revolvers, and all those sorts of show off weapons for weapon-fetishist rednecks
and criminals. Then only allow private purchase of a few weapons strictly meant
for hunting purposes.

Well, over here we have this thing called The Second Ammendment. When the founding fathers drafted the Constitution they did so on the heels of a revolution in which the common people rose up against an oppressive government and they forsaw the need to do it again someday, so they wrote in a mechanism to keep the poeple armed. They thought the government should be afraid of it's people, not the other way around. In fact, after the Iron Curtain fell and the Soviet Union collapsed, we found out from a high ranking Russian general that one of their main concerns when planning a land invasion of the US was the armed population.

To step back to more plausible scenarios: Criminals can get fully-automatic weapons - which are strictly controlled, but that does not stop them. Out here in California shootings are a daily occurence and I guarantee that almost none of them are done by legal gun owners. I live in Richmond, CA - and we make Oakland look like the sodding Emerald City. Our police force is short 52 officers! On average there is one officer for every 300 Americans and they can not be your personal body guard. I look at things like the LA Riots and Katrina and I realize that there are cases in which the government fails and anarchy takes over. I have a 72 hour kit because I live in an earthquake area and my town is just a few hours away from being run by gangsters already. It would not take much to force it over the edge. I own a tactical shotgun for home defense, I can't own an assault rifle, because it's illegal. Does that stop the criminals from getting, not only assault rifles, but fully automatic rifles? Of course not.

There is nothing a criminal likes more than the guarantee that his victim is unarmed. Out here my good friend was mugged inside the gate of her appartment community - shit like that does not happen nearly as often in states that make it easy to carry a weapon, own a weapon and defend yourself. Not too long ago someone broke into a house in Utah to take revenge on the buisiness owner that laid him off - the guy was killed and no charges were filed. Out here in Califonia, if I were to kill somone who had kicked down my front door and was attacking my wife or kids I would be charged with manslaughter and go to trial, and also be sued civilly by the scumbag's gold-digging family.

Pistols:
I like pistols, when I'm back home I frequently go to the range to shoot. My father, a retirel Colonel, shot competitivly when he was younger and now that he's retired volunteers at a public shooting range as a safety officer. My grandfather shot for the US Army pistol team and helped them go to nationals where he shot against the best in the world. We still have his customized target pistols which have great sentimental as well as monetary value. My personal favorite is an out-of-production Smith & Wesson .38 cal. revolver with a 6" barrel. Right now on my fridge is a target in which I put only one round - right through the X at 15 yards (the FBI qualifies at 7). I shoot pistols for the fun of it. It's challenging and getting a consistently tight shot group is very hard. You need to be aware of your breathing, your stance, your arms, your pulse, your front and rear sights, windage, bullet drop, trigger sensitivity, what part of your finger you are using on the trigger, and your grip. To get a bull's eye in your first shot is very hard, especially with a pistol. You must enter a sort of trance-like state even with gun fire all around you. Before you call me a redneck I recommend you try it and see how well you do. I'm a shooting enthusiast, but I'm not a hunter.

My brother owns an AR-15 assault rifle, and he's very, very good with it. I watched him put two rounds through 2.5 cm bottle cap at 100 yards with open iron sights and a stiff cross wind. Why does my little brother have an assault rifle? Because when he got it he was in ROTC (Reserve Officer Training Corp), a program that trains college students to be military officers. My brother is now an officer in the US Army and is going to ship out to his first assignment later this year. He already has his airborne wings and will be going for his Ranger tab. So why did my parents buy him an AR-15? Practice. The shooting skills he has developed will help him stay alive on the battlefield. Why do I want a 5.56 AR? Two reasons, one- it's fun to shoot at the range, and two, because, Eris forbid, the worst does happen I want to have the ability to defend myself both at range and close combat and only an assault rifle gives you that option.

Revolvers:
The ideal home defense pistol. They don't jam, misfires are not a problem like on a semi-automatic, and they are very accurate. A .38 +P with hollow tip rounds offers good stopping power without the risk of over-penetration.

Look, show me one gun law, anywhere that has reduced crime.
Why do I need an assault rifle? In case I want to assault someone!

[Blind_Io]

Originally Posted by osabros

what i don't get is that in other places around the world people don't need guns to protect themselves. is there really so much crime in the US that you need a gun for protection??
is an honest question.

Umm, Bullshit? In England when guns were outlawed crime shot through the roof. You're in Israel, where guns are as common as yuppies with water bottles over here. If I'm not mistaken military personnel in Israel have to carry their weapons with them at all times. How much crime do you have? Not terrorism, but muggings, murders, rapes, home invasions and the like? London has a truck load of these crimes, and to combat them the police installed more CCTV cameras than any city in the world. So now you are constantly being watched, big brother looking over your shoulder. Sorry, but I don't like that solution and it really has not done much to solve the problem.

[hajj]

Originally Posted by Blind_Io

Umm, Bullshit? In England when guns were outlawed crime shot through the roof. You're in Israel, where guns are as common as yuppies with water bottles over here. If I'm not mistaken military personnel in Israel have to carry their weapons with them at all times. How much crime do you have? Not terrorism, but muggings, murders, rapes, home invasions and the like? London has a truck load of these crimes, and to combat them the police installed more CCTV cameras than any city in the world. So now you are constantly being watched, big brother looking over your shoulder. Sorry, but I don't like that solution and it really has not done much to solve the problem.

London is quite safe, the centre is really safe, surely there are parts of the city where I would not go at any time, but these exist in most large cities and they are quite far outside as well.

The problem in America is not that everyone is allowed to have a gun, there are other countries with an comparable rate of guns per capita, but the problem is the mind of the american gun user and the laws and justice system in some states.

I think that the current situation in California isn't too bad. Self defence is fine. But some people simply overdo it and they shouldn't be protected by law.
Read the example below.

Jason M. Rosenbloom, the man shot by his neighbor in Clearwater, said his case illustrated the flaws in the Florida law. “Had it been a year and a half ago, he could have been arrested for attempted murder,” Mr. Rosenbloom said of his neighbor, Kenneth Allen.

“I was in T-shirt and shorts,” Mr. Rosenbloom said, recalling the day he knocked on Mr. Allen’s door. Mr. Allen, a retired Virginia police officer, had lodged a complaint with the local authorities, taking Mr. Rosenbloom to task for putting out eight bags of garbage, though local ordinances allow only six.

“I was no threat,” Mr. Rosenbloom said. “I had no weapon.”

The men exchanged heated words. “He closed the door and then opened the door,” Mr. Rosenbloom said of Mr. Allen. “He had a gun. I turned around to put my hands up. He didn’t even say a word, and he fired once into my stomach. I bent over, and he shot me in the chest.”

Mr. Allen, whose phone number is out of service and who could not be reached for comment, told The St. Petersburg Times that Mr. Rosenbloom had had his foot in the door and had tried to rush into the house, an assertion Mr. Rosenbloom denied.

“I have a right,” Mr. Allen said, “to keep my house safe.”

Source

[Blind_Io]

That was NOT a case of self defense and under the laws of every state that's a crime. This man does not represent the mentality of the average American gun owner and you know it.

A more perfect example of hasty generalization I have never seen.

Come back when you have something to support your claim.

Here is my back-up:
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewForeignBu...20020418e.html
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conten...1/266umtwb.asp
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/798708/posts
http://www.allsafedefense.com/news/I.../BritvsUSA.htm
http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/g...crimerates.htm
http://www.reason.com/0211/fe.jm.gun.shtml
http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/London...67543-sun.html

[hajj]

Originally Posted by Blind_Io

That was NOT a case of self defense and under the laws of every state that's a crime. This man does not represent the mentality of the average American gun owner and you know it.

A more perfect example of hasty generalization I have never seen.

No I know that the average gun owner isn't like that, but I spoke about gun users. There is a big difference between those two groups. Try to read what I write, and not what you want to read.