Breaking news: Obama, Congress has solved the energy crisis.

[Gatecrasher]

lol knee jerk reactions

[vegasrebel29]

Originally Posted by Scooby5

In one swoop you're whole post disappears in a cloud of dust, for relevence.

Observe nature at work.





The Ford Fiesta Zetec Blue 1.25L is not diesel, it's PETROL. If you're going to make an arguement, make a good one.

Oh, and please leave out my late great grandmother, i'm sure she didn't do anything to deserve your mention although i do wish i had met her.

Actually, I checked that bit and forgot to change that. A mistake on my part. I don't see any rebuttal on the rest of the post though...

[Scooby5]

Originally Posted by vegasrebel29

I don't see any rebuttal on the rest of the post though...

Only because it was midnight, i'd had a few drinks and to be quite honest i simply couldn't be bothered.


There is another post in another thread by somebody more up on the topic than I, America gets more done because it works longer hours. I think that post mentioned that on a per hour basis then at least France does more since they work a lot less hours in the week.

Blaming mis-management at GM doesn't work, with regards their numbers. It seems to be a national past-time to always blame others but the truth is the losses were huge. The popensity for building trucks, SUV and your so-called mustle cars played a very significant role. Note my 2.0L actually has more power and is quicker than the 4.6L in Mustang so it is time to forget the past and embrace the present. Note also that Hyundai's Sonata sales figures went up 60% so far this year from last in the US. They, for one, are building the cars that people actually need to drive so the high oil price is doing what it should, make you guys wake up and waste less.


The comparison to China, India, Venezuala etc. was not mine, it was made earlier by your own countryman. I don't find the response elitest at all since i would never have made the comparison in the first place. If i would have then there is an arguement that i am.


Of course i know oil is sold in USD, but you realise the only major country that uses USD on a daily basis is, well, the US. The impact on Europe and many other countries is lower than it might otherwise be as a result of the USD/Eur and USD/GBP exchange rates going the way they have. And my post was not in reference to just inflation in the US or simply the price of oil as you think, but the world in general, taking into account the cost of all traded commodities.


If outright speculation only added $5 a barrel, ask yourself why the price can go down $20 in a week when supply/demand cannot change so quickly -price goes up because a squirrel farts near a pipeline in Nigeria then comes down again when news comes in the farmer shot it. Absurd? Yes, but this is the kind of news we hear. Price goes up because of this and down because of that and maybe only half is based in fact.

[jetsetter]

Note my 2.0L actually has more power and is quicker than the 4.6L in Mustang so it is time to forget the past and embrace the present.

Sigh. Your 2.0L has 300 hp and 320 ft·lbf? And does your 2.0L have a turbo? If it does your mileage won't be much better than the Mustang when you put your foot down.

You do realize that most Mustangs are sold with the six cylinder engine right? It's always been that way. The V8 is an option. Same with the Camaro and other muscle cars.

[vegasrebel29]

Originally Posted by Scooby5

Only because it was midnight, i'd had a few drinks and to be quite honest i simply couldn't be bothered.

There is another post in another thread by somebody more up on the topic than I, America gets more done because it works longer hours. I think that post mentioned that on a per hour basis then at least France does more since they work a lot less hours in the week.

Considering you've been lumping me in with people I have nothing in common with other than that we're ruled by the same serfs, a per-hour basis is irrelevant. When you take the hoard numbers, France is at least 4 spots back in the closest reputable index of national GDP per capita. Also, longer work hours is as much of a personal decision as it is a cultural norm.

Originally Posted by Scooby5

Blaming mis-management at GM doesn't work, with regards their numbers. It seems to be a national past-time to always blame others but the truth is the losses were huge. The popensity for building trucks, SUV and your so-called mustle cars played a very significant role. Note my 2.0L actually has more power and is quicker than the 4.6L in Mustang so it is time to forget the past and embrace the present. Note also that Hyundai's Sonata sales figures went up 60% so far this year from last in the US. They, for one, are building the cars that people actually need to drive so the high oil price is doing what it should, make you guys wake up and waste less.

I'm not blaming others. I'm blaming GM for GM's losses. They built trucks, SUVs and muscle cars because that's all they're reputable in anymore. You see, back in the 80s, some crazy bastards from Japan looked at America and saw nothing but dollar signs. They built reliable, cheap midsize and sub-midsize cars and AMERICANS LIKED THEM! GM did jack shit (except spout mindless nationalism) during this period, and now the Toyota Camry is one of the best-selling cars in North America. Hyundai's playing the same game in the present day, but cannibalizing both Toyota and GM.

Originally Posted by Scooby5

The comparison to China, India, Venezuala etc. was not mine, it was made earlier by your own countryman. I don't find the response elitest at all since i would never have made the comparison in the first place. If i would have then there is an arguement that i am.

My countryman != me. The one you're referring to is 41, I'm 18. He lives in Nashville, I live in Las Vegas. He drives an XJ6, I drive an Eldorado. The Eldorado was my first car, his first was a Datsun.

Turning a nation as large and diverse as America into a giant collective is a really bad move when you're being analytical.

Originally Posted by Scooby5

Of course i know oil is sold in USD, but you realise the only major country that uses USD on a daily basis is, well, the US. The impact on Europe and many other countries is lower than it might otherwise be as a result of the USD/Eur and USD/GBP exchange rates going the way they have. And my post was not in reference to just inflation in the US or simply the price of oil as you think, but the world in general, taking into account the cost of all traded commodities.

A reserve currency (or anchor currency) is a currency which is held in significant quantities by many governments and institutions as part of their foreign exchange reserves. It also tends to be the international pricing currency for products traded on a global market, such as oil, gold, etc.

The dollar is far and away the world's reserve currency. Ergo, when the dollar quakes, the world quakes.

Originally Posted by Scooby5

If outright speculation only added $5 a barrel, ask yourself why the price can go down $20 in a week when supply/demand cannot change so quickly -price goes up because a squirrel farts near a pipeline in Nigeria then comes down again when news comes in the farmer shot it. Absurd? Yes, but this is the kind of news we hear. Price goes up because of this and down because of that and maybe only half is based in fact.

You answered the question there yourself. Psychology plays as much of a factor in markets as anything else. When Ahmadinejad rattles his saber, it goes up $10. When Khatami, his predeccessor, calls for a "dialog of civilzations," the price WAS $10. You're discounting the (massively important) factor of regional instability. The 1973 and 1979 oil crises, which coincided with the Yom Kippur War and the Iranian Revolution, prove this.

[CyberMonkey]

Strange, funny and scary at the same time that people can have that different opinions and still be so damn sure of them. I'm glad fuel prices get higher. Green technologies get promoted, wastefulness punished. And wasting we have done too much for too long already. Not just the USA but all of the world.
Drilling for more oil will only postpone the moment you will have to isolate your house better, drive a lighter car, eat smaller steaks, buy a new plasma only every two years and close the lights when you leave. Five years, ten years, maybe fifteen? After that the world will be an even worse place and those damn communist greenies over in Europe will have a developing green economy with minimized environmental impact.

[Scooby5]

Originally Posted by vegasrebel29

Turning a nation as large and diverse as America into a giant collective is a really bad move when you're being analytical.

I didn't start the comparison, merely stated that really it shouldn't be comparing the country with poor or, for this case, nett oil exporting ones either.

A reserve currency (or anchor currency) is a currency which is held in significant quantities by many governments and institutions as part of their foreign exchange reserves. It also tends to be the international pricing currency for products traded on a global market, such as oil, gold, etc.

The dollar is far and away the world's reserve currency. Ergo, when the dollar quakes, the world quakes.

You have realised that Euroland is now physically a larger trading block than the US? Change, then, is only a matter of time. With China's growth in double digits per year you'll find a lot of impact from there as well and if it continues its current path could regain its dominant role. Maybe not in my lifetime as i'm quite old already, but more possible in your lifetime.

Whilst only just over 1/4 of reserve currency is currently held in Euro there has been nearly a 10% increase since the introduction of the physical currency at the start of the decade.

The world is not "quaking", by the way, with the USD, it's going out and buying your banks and property. You'll also find some oil transactions now being done in Euro.

Sigh. Your 2.0L has 300 hp and 320 ft·lbf? And does your 2.0L have a turbo? If it does your mileage won't be much better than the Mustang when you put your foot down.

Still averages more than 30mpUSg for me but agreed, 300hp is too good to resist. Doesn't ever get down below 20mpg though cause i don't take my current car around the track. Last one was heavily modified so did.

[wooflepoof]

Originally Posted by Scooby5

It is nice Amercicans now comapre themselves with the likes of those in China, India, Venezuala etc. and not with Europe or other Developed Countries.

At the moment prices have gone down as speculators and investers have jumped into equities and others. Prices won't go as low as they were before but they can go down from where they are now, yes, even without drilling at the moment.

China and India are not only the most populated countries on the planet, they are also growing the fastest economically. As more of them become mobile they are going to want more oil and they'll eventually need more than even the US, so the prices are naturally going to skyrocket. Its simple supply and demand. So yes, we will compare ourselves to the likes of China and India because they're to become much larger importers of oil than the relatively dinky Europe ESPECIALLY now that China is also developing its own car industry.

[LurkerPatrol]

You know this brings up the old question that was brought to life in the very early parts of this election. Does Obama have anything meaningful to say, and does he have any substance in his speeches or is he still in fantasy land?

Originally Posted by wooflepoof

China and India are not only the most populated countries on the planet, they are also growing the fastest economically. As more of them become mobile they are going to want more oil and they'll eventually need more than even the US, so the prices are naturally going to skyrocket. Its simple supply and demand. So yes, we will compare ourselves to the likes of China and India because they're to become much larger importers of oil than the relatively dinky Europe ESPECIALLY now that China is also developing its own car industry.

Pff.... we don't use a lot of gas and oil

[Censport]

[quote=Scooby5;755181]
It is nice Amercicans now comapre themselves with the likes of those in China, India, Venezuala etc. and not with Europe or other Developed Countries.
Actually, that was a contrast, but you knew that. And I did compare/contrast the fuel taxes paid by American consumers to those paid by European consumers.

Cheap petrol is usually present in Net Oil Exporting countries as means of a subsidy, such as Qatar, Brunei, Malaysia. It is also usually present in POOR countries. That kinda takes care of our listed countries then. It's interesting to note that as inflation shoots up even the subsidies are being reduced, with Malaysia putting petrol prices up by nearly 50% a few months ago.

China is poor? One of the most populated, fastest-developing countries in the world is still poor? I think your view of China needs to be updated.

Countries such as China and India don't subsidize their oil products because they are poor, but because they are trying to spark economic growth in their countries. And it has worked. Take a look at your collection of belongings, and see how much of it wears "Made in China" labels.

In Venezuela, it's likely more a matter of Chavez trying to buy his way out of a coup.

In Singapore, petrol is USD5.80 per US-Gallon. Yes, i know most is tax. I know this cause i'm not an idiot but you know what, these taxes are a good source of income for governments....... oh wait, what's the US budget deficit these days?

60% of our budget is entitlement programs, another large chunk goes to foreign aid, so yes we have a large deficit. Raising fuel taxes will only further the amount of fuel purchased, thereby defeating the purpose of the tax. That's how raising taxes usually works in America.

At the moment prices have gone down as speculators and investers have jumped into equities and others. Prices won't go as low as they were before but they can go down from where they are now, yes, even without drilling at the moment.

So it's all about specualtors and investors, and not how "wasteful" Americans are traveling 9.6 billion fewer miles a month than they were last year? Or that sales of SUVs to "wasteful" Americans has plummeted, while sales of hybrids, compacts, scooters and motorcycles has skyrocketed?

Also, if America increased its domestic drilling, it (and the world) would be more stable during future world conflicts, such as when Ahmedinejad finally gets his wish and Iran is attacked either by Israel or the U.S. And since oil is traded on a worldwide market, an increased supply would be good for everybody the world over.

[Scooby5]

Originally Posted by Censport

China is poor? One of the most populated, fastest-developing countries in the world is still poor? I think your view of China needs to be updated.

Countries such as China and India don't subsidize their oil products because they are poor, but because they are trying to spark economic growth in their countries. And it has worked. Take a look at your collection of belongings, and see how much of it wears "Made in China" labels.

I've been doing work in China for 13-yrs and know the people are poor. I'd like to know how factory workers paid USD100 per month are rich with farmers even less so. There is a reason why so many things come with that "Made in China" label, its cheap.

The subsidy is not for the country, its for the people.

So it's all about specualtors and investors, and not how "wasteful" Americans are traveling 9.6 billion fewer miles a month than they were last year? Or that sales of SUVs to "wasteful" Americans has plummeted, while sales of hybrids, compacts, scooters and motorcycles has skyrocketed?

If that were purely the case then the price wouldn't have gone up yesterday based simnply on fear of production from Iran. The markets are based on rumour mongering and fear..... for profit. 9-times from 10 these fears are unjustified a few days later just to be replaced by another.

[Momentum57]

Originally Posted by Scooby5

The markets are based on rumour mongering and fear..... for profit. 9-times from 10 these fears are unjustified a few days later just to be replaced by another.

So if we sank some more holes in the USA we would not have to think of fear woo thanks for the reasoning jack ass hahaha

[Censport]

Originally Posted by Scooby5

I've been doing work in China for 13-yrs and know the people are poor. I'd like to know how factory workers paid USD100 per month are rich with farmers even less so. There is a reason why so many things come with that "Made in China" label, its cheap.

The subsidy is not for the country, its for the people.

Which is why only "the people" get the subsidy, and not wealthy developers, construction companies, government leaders... oh, wait.

Since you've been doing work in China for 13 years, you remember when poor people in China didn't need gasoline, because they rode bicycles or used carts pulled by animals.

[Scooby5]

And yet oil prices are still going down over all this month....... just as i said they had the scope to do.

The same traders and "experts" that were saying oil could be USD200 by the end of the year are now talking in the USD100-105 territory. Oil inventories have leaped while petrol's has fallen.

Which is why only "the people" get the subsidy, and not wealthy developers, construction companies, government leaders... oh, wait.

Wealthy developers, construction companies and government leaders pay taxes of many types. The lower income groups are unlikely to be paying many direct taxes so the subsidy for petrol is of a very big significance.

So if we sank some more holes in the USA we would not have to think of fear woo thanks for the reasoning jack ass hahaha

No, it just gives something else to rumour about. Prices have also been subject to rumours and "problems" in the Gulf of Mexico for example, and hurricanes disrupting the rigs and refineries onshore. You can always find something fear, whether political instability or supply/demand concerns.

[vegasrebel29]

Oil inventories have leaped? When did that happen?
Was it when terrorists bombed a Turkish pipeline, halting 1% of the world's production?

[Momentum57]

OK I have thought about how proper tire inflation could be part of a national energy program. First I have no problem with proper tire inflation it is something we all should do. Also if your involved with any motorsport chances are you do check your inflation. Although just suggesting that you do check your pressure is not going to get the average drive (and women) to do so

So I prescribe a national program of checkpoints, much like DWI and seat belt checkpoints. At the checkpoint two of your tires are checked and averaged. If the average is not up to level as noted on the tires you receive a fine of $75. This 75 dollars in contributed to a national energy investment portfolio which is invested multiple concerns. This investment portfolio is managed by the Treasury Department with open meetings discussing return on investment.

A few notes the averaging and the fact that few today do check their air pressure would cause relatively large numbers of people contributing. Two the portfolio could invest in natural gas companies, oil drilling, nuclear, and alternative leaving few to be able to protest. The Treasury Department's open meetings could lead these companies to have greater responsibility. At some point the ROI would over take the need for fines and a national divided would be paid for you to either buy more gas and not inflate your tires or just get drunk.