Bush is f*cking inbelievable, vote him out!

[Firecat]

I was half-expecting a reply to my post from Justin

[Jostyrostelli]

Meet Justin, the man who only reads what he wants..as you can see above.

[static]

Originally Posted by Firecat

I was half-expecting a reply to my post from Justin

Yep, same here. I can give you a hand Justin if you cant find my post.

[justin syder]

NO NO NO!

I couldnt reply because my comp was out for service, too much dust on the fan where I couldnt clean it.

I had no internet access the last two days, no comp.

Anyway, everyone that thinks I want military action to solve things that is wrong. It worked in Afghanistan an Iraq but I dont think it would be good in N.Korea, maybe some light bombing on Iran's Nuclear plants, thats it.

To, Firecat, Iran is trying to get nukes to equalize things in the mid-east. You do know that Israel is the only Nuclear power? This is the ONLY deterant they have to hold all these Israel-hating countries/govts/militaries to launch an attack. They HAVE done so in the past. Many times, Israel is and SHOULD be the only Nuclear power in the mid-east.

I think that if you are in favor of revolutions then you should want Iran and N.korea to revolt against their oppressive govts.

Josty -

Meet Justin, the man who only reads what he wants..as you can see above.

Please leave the cheap shots out of this . My comp was being repaired and I'll try to reply to the 2 pages off ppl posts.

Did Bush try every other option, explore every venue, no!

muumipeikko-

He did not give the UN enough time to search Iraq for WMD's and went in without the approval of the UN. He would have done the same for Iran/N-Korea already (If he doesn't he has double standards) but he knows that it wount be as easy, those are countries which potentially have Nuclear capability and he is not THAT dumb..

A few months went by and nothing was done. Mind you, this is enough time to get rid of the weapons and no one wants to accept that as a possibility. The UN was also having a hand in aiding Saddam with Kofi's (SP?) son corrupting the UN's good intentions and basically continuing Saddam funding his WMD programs.

static-

Huge and super expensive tax cuts for the rich people, thats great domestic policy?
Cutting down educational and healthcare and pouring enourmous amounts of money in warfare, thats great domestic policy?

Bush is a fucking retard and he with his government is the most serious threat to the world peace.
We had this great exchange student from New York and he was a great example that not all americans ignore politics. There are just too many uncivilized rednecks who don't give a damn about anything and vote for Bush. And that's why suckers like Bush get elected.

EVERYONE gets tax cuts, the rich get more because they PAY more. Im sure socialism might work in Finland but here most ppl dont want to have high taxes and fleecing their wallet into programs that have good intentions but ultimately DONT work. Im not gonna address the rest of your post because its steroetypical of americans that were "dumb enough" to vote him in again. PPl like to keep their moeny here

As far as domestic policy, he is going to or is trying to reform Social Security and will also want to reform healthcare and also try to simplyfy the tax code, MEANING, no more income tax. More money in our wallets means that WE have more control over our lives and finances, NOT the govt. Thats why us dummies voted him in.

Mischief-

So with Saddam definitely more talks and to find out why he didn't let the UN inpectors in his country. There had to be a reason behind that. There's no way he just said "Get out". Something must of happened.

How could you be so naive? The reaosn why someone would do that is to continue bad behavior or something illegal. Why else would he kick them out? Why else did he limit the sites inspectors could see, why else would he have some of them wait up to 20mins before they inspected the site. Im sure you remember those news stories.

Mischief-

North Korea and Iran:

I know they have been talking to both of these countries and what would need to be done is to see how the problems can be resolved peacefully. No use of nuclear weapons please. Iran has been stating that they have nuclear power plants which they use to provide electricity for the people of Iran.

As for North Korea. Something must of happened that North Korea said that they are willing to use nuclear weapons against the US.

As you can tell, I strongly believe in talking. Words are stronger than actions. I really do hate wars. No good comes out of MOST of them.

Im up to peaceful solution but so far, N.Korea wants incentives just to start the 6 party talks. They want to milk these negotiations and prob have no intention of disarming the nukes but I still have hope with this situation. Obviously the problem is N.Korea, not the US or anyone else. They dont want to negotiate without getting something in return, that is not the way you try to bring about peace.



So far this has gone on great, an exchange of ideas, of course with some il comments but overall, EVEN IF we dont come to an agreement we have actually made some good political discussion here.

lets keep it going.

[static]

Originally Posted by justin syder

Anyway, everyone that thinks I want military action to solve things that is wrong. It worked in Afghanistan an Iraq but I dont think it would be good in N.Korea, maybe some light bombing on Iran's Nuclear plants, thats it.

How did the military action work in Iraq? People in there are now more depressed, sick and commit suicides more than when Saddam was in power. The country is much more dangerous place for people now, after the invasion.

Light bombing?
You cannot just bomb away everything that worries you. If you attack Irans nuclear powerplants it will cause a chainreaction that could lead to open war.

EVERYONE gets tax cuts, the rich get more because they PAY more. Im sure socialism might work in Finland but here most ppl dont want to have high taxes and fleecing their wallet into programs that have good intentions but ultimately DONT work. Im not gonna address the rest of your post because its steroetypical of americans that were "dumb enough" to vote him in again. PPl like to keep their moeny here

We've got progressive taxing here and that doesn't make us a social country. Let's not start comparing countries cause then this would get pretty large and hard to handle.

The tax cuts in USA doesn't work as it mainly effects on those who make a lot of money already. They don't need that extra money nearly as much as a poor family would.
I didn't really get what you ment by "keeping their money in here", could you explain it with few words?

As far as domestic policy, he is going to or is trying to reform Social Security and will also want to reform healthcare and also try to simplyfy the tax code, MEANING, no more income tax. More money in our wallets means that WE have more control over our lives and finances, NOT the govt. Thats why us dummies voted him in.

When you tax people, the money does not go to the government. It goes to the people.
And great, you have some more money in your wallet. But the downside is that when you don't pay so much taxes the public healthcare and education suffers. How can the poor people afford to use public clinics and schools?

I don't want to generalize so I'll adress this only to you: Do you care about anything else than how much money you make? Does poor and homeless people concern you at all?
Nobody likes taxes but they benefit to everybody. Those who got their things in order just don't notice it so well.

[haz]

Originally Posted by justin syder

NO NO NO!

I couldnt reply because my comp was out for service, too much dust on the fan where I couldnt clean it.

I had no internet access the last two days, no comp.

Anyway, everyone that thinks I want military action to solve things that is wrong. It worked in Afghanistan an Iraq but I dont think it would be good in N.Korea, maybe some light bombing on Iran's Nuclear plants, thats it.

To, Firecat, Iran is trying to get nukes to equalize things in the mid-east. You do know that Israel is the only Nuclear power? This is the ONLY deterant they have to hold all these Israel-hating countries/govts/militaries to launch an attack. They HAVE done so in the past. Many times, Israel is and SHOULD be the only Nuclear power in the mid-east.

I think that if you are in favor of revolutions then you should want Iran and N.korea to revolt against their oppressive govts.

Josty -

Please leave the cheap shots out of this . My comp was being repaired and I'll try to reply to the 2 pages off ppl posts.

Did Bush try every other option, explore every venue, no!

muumipeikko-

A few months went by and nothing was done. Mind you, this is enough time to get rid of the weapons and no one wants to accept that as a possibility. The UN was also having a hand in aiding Saddam with Kofi's (SP?) son corrupting the UN's good intentions and basically continuing Saddam funding his WMD programs.

static-

EVERYONE gets tax cuts, the rich get more because they PAY more. Im sure socialism might work in Finland but here most ppl dont want to have high taxes and fleecing their wallet into programs that have good intentions but ultimately DONT work. Im not gonna address the rest of your post because its steroetypical of americans that were "dumb enough" to vote him in again. PPl like to keep their moeny here

As far as domestic policy, he is going to or is trying to reform Social Security and will also want to reform healthcare and also try to simplyfy the tax code, MEANING, no more income tax. More money in our wallets means that WE have more control over our lives and finances, NOT the govt. Thats why us dummies voted him in.

Mischief-

How could you be so naive? The reaosn why someone would do that is to continue bad behavior or something illegal. Why else would he kick them out? Why else did he limit the sites inspectors could see, why else would he have some of them wait up to 20mins before they inspected the site. Im sure you remember those news stories.

Mischief-

Im up to peaceful solution but so far, N.Korea wants incentives just to start the 6 party talks. They want to milk these negotiations and prob have no intention of disarming the nukes but I still have hope with this situation. Obviously the problem is N.Korea, not the US or anyone else. They dont want to negotiate without getting something in return, that is not the way you try to bring about peace.



So far this has gone on great, an exchange of ideas, of course with some il comments but overall, EVEN IF we dont come to an agreement we have actually made some good political discussion here.

lets keep it going.

WHO THE HELL ARE YOU QUOTING ALL THE DAMN TIME JUSTIN???????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????

Fuck, I've told you over and over and so have numerous of others.

haz

[static]

Originally Posted by haz

WHO THE HELL ARE YOU QUOTING ALL THE DAMN TIME JUSTIN???????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????

Fuck, I've told you over and over and so have numerous of others.

haz

Well that was a bad quote, please don't do that.
If you read what he wrote you saw there was a nick above every quote.

[swek]

^ Hey haz, take a look above the posts. He included the names this time.

[haz]

damn, I see that now! It means he actually heard what we said to him! This is great news for us all!

haz

[MXM]

Originally Posted by static

I don't want to generalize so I'll adress this only to you: Do you care about anything else than how much money you make? Does poor and homeless people concern you at all?
Nobody likes taxes but they benefit to everybody. Those who got their things in order just don't notice it so well.

I'm sorry to break in your civilized discussion here, but I belive Justin once said here (don't know if he changed his mind about subject or not):

Originally Posted by justin syder

lets face it, poor ppl are poor due to their circumstance, their addiction, their lack of using a condom and having a few kids without a good job. i shouldnt have to pay higher taxes for their mistake.

i want to help poor ppl but giving them handouts is not the way to do it. you dont know how many ppl feel that the govt should fix their problem. yet they dont feel that overspending and having thousands in debt, or that they should not have had a child before getting their career and their monetary situation in control.

That should explain it

Anyway, I'm going back to passive mode

[Firecat]

Originally Posted by justin syder

To, Firecat, Iran is trying to get nukes to equalize things in the mid-east. You do know that Israel is the only Nuclear power? This is the ONLY deterant they have to hold all these Israel-hating countries/govts/militaries to launch an attack. They HAVE done so in the past. Many times, Israel is and SHOULD be the only Nuclear power in the mid-east.

I am aware that Israel is a nuclear power, which they achieved with the help of the United States...which violated the nuclear non-proliferation treaty. Israel started most of the conflicts in the middle east. Any encylopedia or textbook should confirm this for you if you choose not to take my word for it.

The notion that israel should be the only nuclear nation in the mid-east is absurd. I really don't think you can make a case for that, not if you want stability in that region.

The fact is, Israel and the United States have stepped up the rhetoric. The only way for any country to avoid an invasion from either, is to develop nuclear weapons. That's probably whats keeping America from invading North Korea.

Originally Posted by justin syder

Obviously the problem is N.Korea, not the US or anyone else.

Not true at all. Once the new administration took office, they broke off all connections (negotiations) with North Korea. That's what got kim jong's panties in a twist.

Originally Posted by justin syder

I think that if you are in favor of revolutions then you should want Iran and N.korea to revolt against their oppressive govts.

If the Iranian and North Korean peoples overthrew their respective governments, I would support that.

[haz]

Originally Posted by swek

^ Hey haz, take a look above the posts. He included the names this time.

yea, I saw it and responded to it too .... now it makes sense to read his posts when he quotes people ....

haz

[static]

MXM, thanks.

Originally Posted by justin syder

lets face it, poor ppl are poor due to their circumstance, their addiction, their lack of using a condom and having a few kids without a good job. i shouldnt have to pay higher taxes for their mistake.

Or because they haven't been born to "right family" that is wealthy enough to put their children in decent schools.

i want to help poor ppl...

If it costs you money, it seems you don't want to.

...but giving them handouts is not the way to do it. you dont know how many ppl feel that the govt should fix their problem. yet they dont feel that overspending and having thousands in debt, or that they should not have had a child before getting their career and their monetary situation in control.

Now it's you generalizing. You are just seeking for excuses not to help. The majority of homeless and poor don't have history of overspending or debt as they didn't have any money in the first place.
It's so easy to alienate from society in USA as there is no social network to help you what so ever. And big income and welfare differences lead to high crime rate. And USA has that.

That should explain it

Anyway, I'm going back to passive mode [/quote]

[static]

MXM, thanks.

Originally Posted by justin syder

lets face it, poor ppl are poor due to their circumstance, their addiction, their lack of using a condom and having a few kids without a good job. i shouldnt have to pay higher taxes for their mistake.

Or because they haven't been born to "right family" that is wealthy enough to put their children in decent schools.

i want to help poor ppl...

If it costs you money, it seems you don't want to.

...but giving them handouts is not the way to do it. you dont know how many ppl feel that the govt should fix their problem. yet they dont feel that overspending and having thousands in debt, or that they should not have had a child before getting their career and their monetary situation in control.

Now it's you generalizing. You are just seeking for excuses not to help. The majority of homeless and poor don't have history of overspending or debt as they didn't have any money in the first place.
It's so easy to alienate from society in USA as there is no social network to help you what so ever. And big income and welfare differences lead to high crime rate. And USA has that.

[tloekke]

^^^What's keeping the US from attacking North-Korea is not mainly the fact that they have nukes, but they do have one of the largest armies in the world, and during an invasion all the US troops stationed on the north/south border would probably be killed, which is not good for approval ratings. Besides, the south-koreans share an ethnic/cultural bond with the north-koreans, and an attack on the north would severely damage US/south relations. Kim Jong-Il is an evil narccisist (sp?) and not the die-hard commie he seems to be, and I don't think that he has the guts to push the button, he wants to keep things status quo.

[haz]

well put ^

haz

[justin syder]

Firecat-

If the Iranian and North Korean peoples overthrew their respective governments, I would support that.

I think EVRYONE would like to see that but its gonna be a hard thing to pulloff when N.Koreans are spoon fed hate and stuff.

Firecat

The fact is, Israel and the United States have stepped up the rhetoric. The only way for any country to avoid an invasion from either, is to develop nuclear weapons. That's probably whats keeping America from invading North Korea.

North Korea has ONE MILLION troops near the S.Korean border. ANY attack by us would mean an invasion of Seol by the North and deaths in the thousands.

That is why we havent attacked and prob wont want to attack. N.Korea is making it very hard to negotiate though.

Not true at all. Once the new administration took office, they broke off all connections (negotiations) with North Korea. That's what got kim jong's panties in a twist.

Well because when a dictator brainwashes his ppl into thinking that the US is this hatefull enemy and when his own ppl die of starvation, over 3 million, and when the most extreme form of communism is oppressing a nation then something has to be done. He IS a bad guy and an axis of evil. Ppl that are upset at us in Iraq or anyhint should look at the attrocities HE commits daily on an entire nation.

MXM, I stand by what I said. Look ppl , being progressive doesnt mean taking from the rich and giving to the poor. Socialism is one big rutt. The way to help ppl is not to throw money into a problem.

Static might say money isnt important or but Im sure he dreams of a nice car or something more than what he has. America gives ppl that opportunity. Sure we arent perfect, and we have homelessness and not everyone has healthcare but our medical care is among the best in the world. You cant go anywhere with mediocrity and having every single person on healthcare. Its just a dream. On top of that would you give a cocaine user healthcare for free? someone that abuses his/her body. That makes no sense.

Socialism didnt work in Russia and has kept countries at mediocrity and slow growth. It is the reason why america has been to the moon and will be on mars within the next two decades. Meanwhile, Russia is doing all it can just to stay afloat.

I am currently with no healthcare. I will obtain healthcare when I start my job. When I have a healthcare provider I will be able to make a doctor's appointment for any little problem I might have. Canadians can attest to this, they dont usually make regular checkups. Yes no one is without healthcare there but at what cost? Surgery that isnt life threatening would need govt approval. Its no secret that some Canadians come over the border to Buffalo NY to get surgery done. I had my last checkup about a year ago and will have yearly checkups once Im employed. Canadians cannot get regular checkups as easily, the wait is long due to the fact that everyone has to be taken cared of.

Feel free to correct me on anything, canadians, but im sure I got the situation fairly accurately.


Im in NO WAY trying to be arrogant or making the USA out to be some supreme country but in some ways it is better than the socialist type systems in other countries.

[Firecat]

My point is, before this hawkish stance on North Korea, we were talking. The problems start when you stop talking.

[justin syder]

Were the talks going anywhere? Honestly.

[Kip_6666]

Originally Posted by justin syder

Were the talks going anywhere? Honestly.

Thats very hard to say. But I do think its better to keep talking, than to stop and put a country like north korea in doubt to what the next move of the us might be.