Franken Wins Bipartisan Support For Legislation Reining In KBR’s Treatment Of Rape

[Scott]

Originally Posted by tigger

KBR has received over 300 million dollars worth of contracts in Afghanistan and they hold the largest single contract of any firm in Iraq. They have made billions in Iraq. Many of these contracts were awarded without bidding, they were just given out to KBR because the White House knew they would do the best job.

It doesn't take a genius to put together what was going on.

This is going a bit OT, but you need to be aware that Brown&Root (KBR) has been supporting the military... especially the Army since my very first deployment to Bosnia way back in 1996. They did... and still do a FANTASTIC job, and they save us (the military) from having to worry about all of the complications and crap involved with keeping a base camp running and getting all of the assorted stuff that goes with that to and from the camps. They are not some big evil company, they have proven themselves time and time and time again.

I am not doubting or even arguing that there have been some HUGE accounting issues with the money and contracting, but that is the Government's fault not the contractor.


Ok, back on topic:

Originally Posted by tigger

The Republicans again show where their loyalties lie: not to their constituency but to their corporate campaign donations.

Don't stick this all on the Republicans, the Democrats are just as dirty and just as disloyal to their constituents. In this case, it just happens to be all Republicans, but BOTH parties are fucking things up and BOTH parties need to be kicked squarely in the balls on election day. I am voting for as many independents as I can fit on my ballot, it is time to send a message to these dipshits that we are tired of their reindeer games, and want some real action, cooperation and genuine GOOD to come out of Washington.

[tigger]

Originally Posted by gtrietsc

I mean, c'mon. They could have made this bill work for both sides with a minor edit.

That's a good point, but I still think that people should have the option to go beyond arbitration if they want to. Even in civil matters.

Originally Posted by Scott

This is going a bit OT, but you need to be aware that Brown&Root (KBR) has been supporting the military...

Oh I know. I think I read somewhere that KBR, in some past form or another, has been supplying US military operations since Vietnam, maybe since Korea.

Also, I would never say that most of the people who work for KBR, Halliburton, etc are anything but good people. Hell I know a few guys who work for Halliburton. But this no-bid bullshit that was worked out between them and Cheney just smacks of cronyism and corruption at the highest level.

Originally Posted by Scott

Don't stick this all on the Republicans, the Democrats are just as dirty and just as disloyal to their constituents.

I'm just sticking it on my local Republicans, I know them better than most .

Otherwise I feel the same way you do though, I'm sick and tired of all this partisan bullshit. They can't just compromise, oh no. We've got to put up with all this politic slander and finger-pointing. And both sides are playing the game. Both sides profit from it. I lean a lot more towards the Democrats than the Republicans, but if they can't get their shit together I'll be just as mad at them as I am at the GOP.

[nomix]

Folks, lets get one thing straight.

Politicians are bastards.

[epp_b]

And we needed you to tell us that?

[nomix]

It didn't seem that aparrent.

Don't forget, I'm one cynical asshole.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by tigger

But this no-bid bullshit that was worked out between them and Cheney just smacks of cronyism and corruption at the highest level.

No-bid stuff happens all the time, Halliburton just happens to be a favorite target of the left wing. The fact that the big bad Dick Cheney was running the company just makes it an easy target, but the bottom line is that there are LOTS of other companies out there that have done far, far, far, less for the Government/ Military and made crap loads of money in the process.

[gtrietsc]

Originally Posted by tigger

That's a good point, but I still think that people should have the option to go beyond arbitration if they want to. Even in civil matters.

If you don't like the contract provisions, don't sign - just like any other job. No one is forcing you to sign it.

[nomix]

Well, if it's hard to get a job, you could make a case you are de facto forced to do so.

A contract shouldn't contradict the law.

[gtrietsc]

Originally Posted by nomix

Well, if it's hard to get a job, you could make a case you are de facto forced to do so.

A contract shouldn't contradict the law.

Even with a 9.8% unemployment rate in our country - there *are* jobs out there. Maybe not a job you want. Maybe not at a pay you feel you deserve. But there are options.

[nomix]

A contract should not be able to contradict the law.

One could make a case for a rule that it could, as long as the contract was between equal parties (two neighbours or something), but making a rule that's bulletproof in that respect is, I fear, impossible.

[Plissken]

Surely the employment contract states something along the lines of "if any of these terms are subsequently deemed to be illegal, they are automatically void" or some such. I know plenty of contracts over here do.

[gtrietsc]

Originally Posted by nomix

A contract should not be able to contradict the law.

One could make a case for a rule that it could, as long as the contract was between equal parties (two neighbours or something), but making a rule that's bulletproof in that respect is, I fear, impossible.

Actually, a contract for an illegal act is itself unenforceable. I can't contract you to steal someone's car, for instance.

What we are talking about here is agreeing to settle a civil dispute in arbitration rather than being able to sue in open court. Nothing wrong with that. As long as criminal offenses are exempt.

[nomix]

I still see it as a piece of pressure from a stronger party towards a weaker party.

[British_Rover]

Originally Posted by gtrietsc

Actually, a contract for an illegal act is itself unenforceable. I can't contract you to steal someone's car, for instance.

What we are talking about here is agreeing to settle a civil dispute in arbitration rather than being able to sue in open court. Nothing wrong with that. As long as criminal offenses are exempt.

Some mid-western state, WI I think, recently won a case forcing credit card companies out of binding arbitration for contract disputes.

For criminal acts absolutely there should be no possibility of arbitration but there are civil suits that come from criminal acts like a wrongful death suit.

[Plissken]

Originally Posted by gtrietsc

What we are talking about here is agreeing to settle a civil dispute in arbitration rather than being able to sue in open court. Nothing wrong with that. As long as criminal offenses are exempt.

I agree with you up until the last bit. There are plenty of instances where civil law ought to step in. And arbitration should be a step towards court, rather than a separate destination, like ACAS.

I can't think of the term lawyers use in these instances - "disproportionate penalty" or some such, I think.

[tigger]

Originally Posted by Scott

No-bid stuff happens all the time, Halliburton just happens to be a favorite target of the left wing. The fact that the big bad Dick Cheney was running the company just makes it an easy target, but the bottom line is that there are LOTS of other companies out there that have done far, far, far, less for the Government/ Military and made crap loads of money in the process.

I don't see how any of that makes it alright. Halliburton is the favorite target because they're the largest target. Dick Cheney may not be evil, but he is definitely one shady bastard. The man said that he wasn't a part of the Executive branch ffs.

Originally Posted by gtrietsc

If you don't like the contract provisions, don't sign - just like any other job. No one is forcing you to sign it.

That's true. It doesn't change the fact that trying to force people into arbitration is bullshit.

[Dogbert]

http://www.republicansforrape.org/

I read this the other day, and it doesn't remove the option for arbitration as some people are claiming; just allows victims the right to go to court, and refuses funding to companies that try and remove that right.

[Cobol74]

Any company that get a government contract should have their employment contracts scruitenised and those elements that may be described as leading to Moral Hazard suspended whilst the employment involves, in any part, Government work. This rule should be inforce for all suppliers - if THEY don't like it then THEY don't have to sign.

That is how it should be. Get raped and go before a board of arbritration my arse. Someone should homosexually gang rape these guys (the perps) and see how they like it, then lock them up in a container in the cold - then they can go to arbritration. Gits.