Germany Enacts Harshest Anti-Piracy Law to Date

[zenkidori]

I thought we were doing bad:
http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/...100973,00.html

and about this quote:

Günther Krings, the Christian Democrat legal affairs spokesman, said: “There should be no legal distinction between stealing chewing gum from a shop and performing an illegal download.”

Would a German really get 2 years in jail for stealing chewing gum? Furthermore, there is a fundamental difference between stealing something physical and making a digital copy of something else.

Seeing as the RIAA, MPAA and the likes of Jack Valenti have been painted as nazis, I wonder how thier German counterparts are perceived.

[jeffy777]

Yeah that is harsh....

However, I wonder if there is a difference in downloading music illeagaly and stealing something physical. In the old days, if you wanted to get music without paying for it, you pretty much had to make a physical copy, but does it not become stealing if you download it to your computer and you're not getting something physical? Not really. Stealing is stealing.

I don't think there is a difference in stealing something physical and something digital. You're ripping it off whether you steal it from the record store or you get it from limewire. No difference if you really think about.

[zenkidori]

Stealing is stealing.

Indeed, but the very definition of theft is to deprive someone of something, in making a copy you are not doing this. The case for lost revenue is sketchy at best, most times if you're able and desire to buy it, you'd just buy it in the first place. There is a very big difference if you think about it. Would it be stealing if I asked my neighbor for a copy of a movie or CD? This is expressly allowed under fair use rights, the only thing that changes is I don't need to have a phsyical original to get my copy.

[Firecat]

What about if a movie plays on tv and I record it? Or I record a song off the radio? Would that count as stealing?

and if not, then why should sitting in a movie theater with a video camera be illegal?

[bartboy9891]

Originally Posted by Firecat

What about if a movie plays on tv and I record it? Or I record a song off the radio? Would that count as stealing?

and if not, then why should sitting in a movie theater with a video camera be illegal?

DISTRIBUTION!
i see no problem with downloading off of the internet BTW

[zenkidori]

by downloading something how is that distribution?

[bartboy9891]

Originally Posted by zenkidori

by downloading something how is that distribution?

someone is distributing whatever you aredownloading arent they

[jeffy777]

[quote="zenkidori"]

Would it be stealing if I asked my neighbor for a copy of a movie or CD? This is expressly allowed under fair use rights, the only thing that changes is I don't need to have a phsyical original to get my copy.

If I get a copy of a CD from my neighbor that I haven't purchased or don't already own, I would think that would be stealing, but you say it is legal? If it is legal, than no it wouldn't be stealing. And then no, downloading music that you don't own or haven't purchased wouldn't be stealing either. But I was under the impression that getting a copy of a CD that you don't own from a neighnor is illegal. Please clarify this

[zenkidori]

If I get a copy of a CD from my neighbor that I haven't purchased or don't already own, I would think that would be stealing,

It's 100% legal via fair use so no, it's not stealing, this is the same reason that DVD recorders and VHS recorders aren't illegal. Again, in the act of stealing by definition you must deprive someone of the stolen product, a copy is not theft be it's very definition.

someone is distributing whatever you aredownloading arent they

your point being? The distributors still aren't stealing anything, the closest you could come to a physical definition is counterfeiting, and you don't get 2 years in jail for carrying a fake LV bag(they even sell knockoffs in some malls).

[jeffy777]

Originally Posted by zenkidori

It's 100% legal via fair use so no, it's not stealing, this is the same reason that DVD recorders and VHS recorders aren't illegal. Again, in the act of stealing by definition you must deprive someone of the stolen product, a copy is not theft be it's very definition.

If this is true (I'm not doubting you, just curious), then why did the original napster go down?

BTW, forgive me for my ignorance, I don't really keep up on legalities

[zenkidori]

because the RIAA would have you and lawmakers think that it's not fair use to make a digital copy, and that it's stealing, even tho it doesn't even fit the definition.

This is where shit like the DMCA comes into play.

[Firecat]

Ok. So how exactly would a law like this be enforced?

[zenkidori]

The same way they sue people I'd assume. Force ISPs to hand over logs and track down the people belonging to the IP. Or "raid" an unauthorized public showing.

[Firecat]

Now if there are several people living with me, how could they link the "criminal act" to me? Or would they go after whoever pays the bill....maybe somebody hacked my wireless signal and used it. I really think they'll have a tough time getting convictions (of consumers at least). As opposed to walking in a store, taking something and being caught in the act

[Firecat]

saw this online

In Canada, for example, downloading copyright music from peer-to-peer networks is legal, but uploading those files is not. Additionally Canada has imposed fees on recording mediums like blank CDs and similar items. These levies are used to fund musicians and songwriters for revenues lost due to consumer copying. Canada has initially charged this tax on MP3 players, but a recent Supreme Court decision ruled that the law was written in such a way that these players were exempt from the tax.

[zenkidori]

In the lawsuit cases they go after who owns the IP, so if your 8 year old daughter downloads a track she heard about at school, you're going to "pound me in the ass prison".

Very interesting about Canada, kinda seems like that's the way it should be, sorta.

[jeffy777]

Originally Posted by zenkidori

This is where shit like the DMCA comes into play.

Yeah, and that hasn't been update since 1998, IIRC, and deals mainly with broadcasting on the internet.

[Buba]

Well, its not that bad... Yeah, we had some convictions for downloading, but most stuff is being settled for a bit of money. So far only people using Kazzaa have been caught, and some with emule...

The comparison with dling being as bad as stealing a chewing gum will never be true, since the states attorneys have too much work at their hands already...

I'm thinking I'm on the safe side. I stopped dling music some time ago, and everythiong I do now are HD movies from a chinese tracker and american tv shows, which will hardly be persued in Germany...

[trionic]

Print shop changed world, digital copying will change it even more.

Once younger generations will come in power, copying will be fully legal.

[jensked]

Ownership of something has long been considered as the highest possible right. (cfr. the Catholic Church and its belongings)...

If an artist makes music, it's definitely HIS, he owns that music. Because ownership is a high right, there are so much laws about it. I personally agree: stealing is stealing, no matter the form or the content.

But driving faster then 120km/h is also illegal in Belgium, but i've done it. But I also would never complain if they catch me speeding at 130km/h and give me a ticket. I knew i took that risk the second i started going faster then 120km/h...