Germany: Georgia on My Mind/Germany: America on My Mind

[jetsetter]

As far as i know, the Georgians started, then the Russians moved in.

Russia has had designs for Georgia for years. This has included illegal overflights of Georgian territory for sometime. At this point who started it really doesn't matter, conduct matters and Russia did not conduct itself with civilized behavor.

It is on Georgian territory, but the region in question declared itself Independent... mh i thought Americans are very serious about independence. Isn't that even the most important holiday in the US?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War

Over 600,000 dead in total. Freedom matters when it is for the right cause.

On the other hand i don't see why former soviet states are so welcome to the NATO... what can they offer? It's just a strategical gain.

Of course it is. NATO is a military alliance.

Well since the USA invaded several country for importing democracy and exporting oil, so... maybe Germany might also have some interests since it wants to stay an industrial power which consumes alot of energy.

Considering the first new oil contracts in Iraq have gone to the Chinese I suggest you rethink why the United States invaded.

One thing on the missile shield... Umm... yah... nice idea. I'd also like one that protects us. But i also don't like the idea that the nuclear debris from destroyed missiles lands in my backyard.

I do hope you are joking. A little more radioactive material in the air is nothing.

[TomCat]

Originally Posted by MacGuffin

Well, let's not forget that they managed to turn the word "liberal" into an invective in the USA... So being liberal is a bad thing or what? That's funny because the original meaning of liberalism is according to Wikipedia "a broad array of related ideas and theories of government that consider individual liberty to be the most important political goal."

Strange... I thought they value individual liberty over there more than anywhere else..

So when the meaning of "liberal" has become so twisted that it is nowadays a swearword in the USA, it's no wonder that people get wrong perspectives from propaganda-babbling nincompoops like in those articles above. Welcome in cyberspace, where everyone can google for a confirmation for his/her twisted opinions, resentments, prejudices and stereotypes.

Sorry for the hard words but next time seek out more reliable sources.

Don't get too worked up about it. The Right uses "Liberal" as an insult to the Left, while the Left just use real insults towards the Right.

[idk]

Originally Posted by jetsetter

Russia has had designs for Georgia for years. This has include illegal overflights of Georgian territory for sometime. At this point who started it really doesn't matter, conduct matters and Russia did not conduct itself with civilized behavor.

I guess I do not want to know how many designs exist in total from every country about any other. And come on.. how many times have NATO Forces flown over Iran/Libya/ and many more

Originally Posted by jetsetter

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War

Over 600,000 dead in total. Freedom matters when it is for the right cause.

Who defines the cause? England didn't agree with you back then. Nor did some others.

It's not my intention to defend Russia's action... But it's not that easy. South Ossetia wants to be out of Georgia. But they can't. UN charta doesn't allow it. But when is such a desire of a population a "right cause" Who gets to decide? History will, nobody can legitimate it now. And i mean actions of neither of the involved parties!

Originally Posted by jetsetter

Considering the first new oil contracts in Iraq have gone to the Chinese I suggest you rethink why the United States invaded.

I think Georgio Busho didn't want it to turn out like that

Originally Posted by jetsetter

I do hope you are joking. A little more radioactive material in the air is nothing.

Why??? Although it's "nothing" i don't want it
a) in the first place
b) especially not here... and it's exact here where debris will come down!

[Firecat]

Originally Posted by jetsetter

Russia The USA has had designs for Georgia Iraq for years. This has include illegal overflights of Georgian Iraqi territory for sometime. At this point who started it really doesn't matter, conduct matters and Russia the USA did not conduct itself with civilized behavor.

I fixed that for you.

[jetsetter]

I fixed that for you.

Iraq invaded Kuwait, a separate and sovereign nation. It was not a breakaway region or a rebel area and it had not invaded any other country.

[idk]

I think no one is in the position to blame anyone else.

You can not criticize Russia for having "designs" for Georgia since Georgia has a direct boarder with Russia. Seems as if the NATO (who can be considered being the ruling power of NATO ) has drawn a design too, but the big difference is that there is a 8000 kilometer (4970 miles) gap between them.
There are still 3 Super- Powers in the world (USA, Russia, China). For the last 20 years it was really quiet from the Russian side while America was pretty active all the time (i don't mean it in a negative way, they did some really important missions (Kosovo, Afghanistan, in Africa!!!))

Of course the Super-Power Russia doesn't want NATO to stand in it's front yard. WTF... only reason NATO was founded in the first place was to destroy Russia when the moment has come (in the cold war).
So now Russia showed its muscles and that they are still on the Power-Table... that they should not be considered not worth mentioning.
A small country has to suffer from that. It sucks! It's bad for the people but only history will show what that all was good for and in whose interest. We've to wait 20-30 years...

[Firecat]

Originally Posted by jetsetter

Iraq invaded Kuwait, a separate and sovereign nation. It was not a breakaway region or a rebel area and it had not invaded any other country.

Iraq had their reasons, but that's another topic and was a long time ago. I'm not sure what decade you are living in but the USA has gone to war with Iraq a second time now. Iraq being a seperate and sovereign nation as well.

[jetsetter]

Originally Posted by Firecat

Iraq had their reasons, but that's another topic and was a long time ago. I'm not sure what decade you are living in but the USA has gone to war with Iraq a second time now. Iraq being a seperate and sovereign nation as well.

I consider today's conflict a continuation of that original action. Once Saddam took the path he did he and his country were open for anything we deemed necessary.

[Firecat]

Originally Posted by jetsetter

I consider today's conflict a continuation of that original action. Once Saddam took the path he did he and his country were open for anything we deemed necessary.

thankfully you and I are nobody's so it doesn't matter what we think. I just hope our leaders (present & future) have more sense than that. I'm at a loss for words...

[Luca]

Originally Posted by jetsetter

Russia has had designs for Georgia for years. This has included illegal overflights of Georgian territory for sometime. At this point who started it really doesn't matter, conduct matters and Russia did not conduct itself with civilized behavor.

Bearing in mind what you guys do in Iraq, you worry about overflights?

[Zorlac]

Originally Posted by jetsetter

I consider today's conflict a continuation of that original action. Once Saddam took the path he did he and his country were open for anything we deemed necessary.

And pray tell what path was that? Saddam had no WMD. He shuffled around the UN weapon inspectors to make the illusion to the rest of the world (and mostly Iraq and Iran) that he had something to hide when he didn't. He was a toothless tiger. Afraid that the world would find out he had nothing and hence had no real power to threaten anyone. He was never a threat to us directly. This war was predicated on the belief he had WMD and was somehow involved with 911. Both were BS, yet somehow the war in Iraq turned to liberate the Iraqi ppl and install democracy.

Why haven't we gone into North Korea? Kim Jong is an evil shit and he's a terrorist. He's blown up planes, kidnapped foreign nationals, and keeps 200 thousand plus of his own citizens in prison, while brutalizing the rest and is responsible for all sorts of mayhem. If ever there was place that needed liberating its N Korea. And it'd be a continuation of the first Korean war. So why not go in? Guess theres not enough Oil to pay us off like Iraq did....oh wait...

[jetsetter]

Guess theres not enough Oil to pay us off like Iraq did....oh wait...

You hit North Korea and Seoul is gone and that's the problem. You have a very advanced country with a high population density right next to a terrible country.

[idk]

Korea didn't work so well in the past, compared the 1st Iraq war. They knew that they will dominate the Iraqis but can not succeed in a nation with.... "Asian mentality" (Korea, Vietnam...)