Gun Control / Nerd Fight

[jetsetter]

I went to a restaurant today and my food was cold. Had to pull out my nine and pop a cap in the chef.

Understandable.

[nomix]

Originally Posted by Blind_Io

Nomix,

I would love to refute you point-by-point but I can't for two very important reasons.

1 - This is finals week for me and I have about 25 pages to write and a test in the next two days

2 - you failed to cite or substantiate any of your claims so as far as I am concerned there is nothing to refute. I've gotten into one too many debates with people who throw out "facts" from bogus sources or from no source at all and I spend all my time proving them wrong. If you want to make a point you have to prove it and that means I want citations from reputable sources. If need be I will help you find scholarly journals in the password protected databases I can access.

I know you are a good debate opponent, so please don't take any of this as an insult, but I will make you work to prove your points. As your opponent I would be derelict if I didn't.

Cheers

Don't I know it, aren't doing my finals, but I am in the final weeks.. lots to do.

I really can't remember sources, I hardly ever do. I read things, and put them in my big, fat, wolly head. In there, along with the details of small stuff about cars.

And boy is it a problem when you can't remember where you've read something.

I just can say one thing, I never fabricate info, that's despicable, and I won't have stuff like that.

You're quite an oponent too, cheers, easy on the booz on graduation.

[Blind_Io]

Graduation is a ways off still, but booze is happening. Oh, yes it's happening.

Nothing makes you an alcoholic like gradschool.

[ioynerien]

I have never been to the US, so I can't comment on how things work over there.
But.. Why do people need guns for their private use? Sport, Hunting, Defense and I thinks that's about it. So you'll only need two types of guns: pistols/revolvers (handguns) versus rifles. (I can see absolutely no point in a person owning a M16 or AK47 for their personal use.) Only rifles require actual lethal ammunition, since they are ment to kill animals. So why can't people be denied to purchase lethal ammunition for handguns? Can't they use plastic/rubber alternatives? (fyi I know those can also be lethal when used at close range) Is the point of home protection not to scare away intruders in stead of killing them (or at least control them until the authorities arrive)?

In my opinion handguns should only be used and owned by the authorities.
If people do own them, they should at all time be kept in a gunrack, with a trigger lock and the bullets stored in a different place (to prevent accidents).

[Firecat]

If a criminal isn't using rubber bullets, why should I? The point of home protection is not to scare intruders away (so they can invade another home or return to yours), it's to stop them in their tracks. And when you shoot someone, you aim for center mass - their chest. And you don't shoot once, but rather twice. Otherwise you are risking them getting away or coming after you. That may kill an intruder, maybe not. But it's more than likely to incapacitate them, and I wouldn't advocate killing them afterwards.

My house was robbed many years ago by 4 armed men. I wasn't home, but my sister was (thankfully she wasn't harmed). I couldn't imagine trying to stop these intruders with a handgun loaded with rubber bullets (it probably wouldn't even be smart to do anything, unless absolutely necessary actually). Not sure what my point is, but telling this story gets my blood boiling...and I hope those assholes met a very violent death.

And rubber bullets are meant for meeting non-lethal force with non-lethal force.

This may sound ridiculous, but maybe some country invades this country or perhaps something internal happens. An assault rifle could come in handy. And that's enough reason for me to support the right to own them.

I'm tired and off to bed, I'll check back in the morning to see if any of that made sense.

[mautzel]

I'm not sure wheter I should be in favour for strict or rather soft gun regulations. The ideal would be that mankind never ever invented such things as weapons, but that's obviously not the case and extremely far fetched anyway.

Fact is that people DO have weapons for whatever purpose and that the ownership of weapons is more or less accepted by the majority of population, so stop complaining and live with the consequences as you can never make it a 100% safe thing! Of course, it is very tragically when people get injured or killed and I can call myself very lucky that I've never been confronted with a situation in which somebody was holding some kind of weapon against me.

As it has been mentioned before: even with the strictest legislation you cannot prevent a massacre to happen, I only think it is somehow hypocritical to speak out condolences while owning guns at the same time. I hope that this'll never happen to anybody, but did you ever think about that your psycological state of mind might change because of reasons that are beyond your control and you might be the one running amok? Of course, you could do that with a kitchen knife as well, however the main purpose of a gun is to aim it at a certain target and damage / destroy it, and that's what makes a gun/weapon something very different and more dangerous in my eyes. I'm happy not to own one.

[Hidden_Hunter]

After the massacre at port aurthur in tasmania the government tightened our laws and bought the guns that were now outlawed back off the people.

On a side note to get a firearm in Australia you need to provide a valid reason for owning one, self defence is not considered a reason for owning one.

[watto]

Originally Posted by Hidden_Hunter

After the massacre at port aurthur in tasmania the government tightened our laws and bought the guns that were now outlawed back off the people.

On a side note to get a firearm in Australia you need to provide a valid reason for owning one, self defence is not considered a reason for owning one.

You also need to be a member of a gun club and have a spotless police record. I work with a guy who owns 10 rifles. 2 for targets, 1 for fun (it's a .22) and the rest for serious hunting (deer, kangaroos, wild dog etc) with fuck off massive scopes. He says he would have no hesitation to use them on an intruder that was threatening his and his partner's wife. And fair enough, too.

I can see where the American right to bear arms thing comes from. If I was an American I'd agree with that. But I'm Australian and I support our firearm laws. I support the fact that if you (legitimately) own a handgun, it can only be used for competition and must be stored at your gun club, not in your home. (Rifles can be stored at home, along with any kind of ammunition)

[jetsetter]

So you'll only need two types of guns: pistols/revolvers (handguns) versus rifles. (I can see absolutely no point in a person owning a M16 or AK47 for their personal use.)

That is what a freedom is. You don't have to have a reason. Is it your choice.

[mautzel]

Originally Posted by jetsetter

That is what a freedom is. You don't have to have a reason. Is it your choice.

OT: That's why you have speed limits on your motorways.

[Hidden_Hunter]

Originally Posted by jetsetter

That is what a freedom is. You don't have to have a reason. Is it your choice.

that doesn't really work though, I could say that I don't have a reason but I stole a car because it was my choice.

[KaJuN]

This incident has really made me do a 180 about the whole being able to legally carry a concealed weapon thing. Before this week I was pretty tough against it. I thought it would just make bad situations even worse. But now I realize having a gun with me would serve two very good uses. The first is for the obvious defense. If someone has a gun and wants to harm me, shouldn't I have a gun too? The second reason is simply as a deterrent. If the guy who did this knew the students might have had guns he may not have started shooting in the first place.

We would all love to live in a world where everyone gets along and people don't do these kinds of things. But the sad truth is that we live in the real world and these things do happen. The best thing to do, at least at the moment, is to level the playing field and allow citizens the means to protect themselves.

[cvrefugee]

Originally Posted by Hidden_Hunter

that doesn't really work though, I could say that I don't have a reason but I stole a car because it was my choice.

Laws don't restrict freedom, per say, they create consequences to actions.

[jetsetter]

Originally Posted by Hidden_Hunter

that doesn't really work though, I could say that I don't have a reason but I stole a car because it was my choice.

Owning a gun is not infringing on the rights of another, stealing a car is infringing on the rights of another.

[zenkidori]

Originally Posted by nomix

That depends. There's quite a large oppertunity that the person carrying the gun would get shakey, fire his gun, miss, fire again, maybe hit someone else, miss some times, and getting shot. Most college students doesn't have tactical firearms training, just having a gun might not be enough.

if you have a CCP you DO have firearms training as mandated by law. You can't get a CCP without training.

[tigger]

Originally Posted by zenkidori

if you have a CCP you DO have firearms training as mandated by law. You can't get a CCP without training.

Yup. I know in Missouri you are required to attend something like 8 hours of courses, along with quite a few other requirements. I know that I will most likely be getting a CCP permit once i'm 21. I seriously doubt that I will carry regularly, but at least I will be able to if I want to.

Originally Posted by awdrifter

I just read about how easy the shooter bought his guns. I really think a stricter requirement might have prevented this.

This is something people don't seem to understand; the gov't could make handguns illegal today and I could still go purchase one tommorow. Thanks to my growing up in such a wonderful part of town , I would not have to look hard to find a gun. If they where illegal, i would just have to pay more. I could go out this weekend and find a .38 pistol for less than $50. Probably for $25. For a few hundred I could probably track down an AK47 or an Uzi. It would probably be stolen, with no serial number, but would that really matter if I was going to do something illegal with it?

[zenkidori]

if you can buy drugs, you can buy guns. every college student in american has access to drugs. think about it.

[Momentum57]

Why outlaw guns when one should outlaw crazy losers. What a creepy guy who called himself ? that right "question". He had some stalking issues that the police picked him up for, this should have had been a red flag to the school to expel all creepy students.

[nomix]

Originally Posted by zenkidori

if you have a CCP you DO have firearms training as mandated by law. You can't get a CCP without training.

What training does this contain?

[Blind_Io]

It varies by state.