Has America Reached its Apex?

[zenkidori]

Originally Posted by SiR_dude

American culter != McDonalds !?!?!!?

not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but mcdonalds has nothing to do with any culture.

[SiR_dude]

Originally Posted by zenkidori

not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but mcdonalds has nothing to do with any culture.

Note the "lol" smileys - of course I was kidding.

[ESPNSTI]

Don't know about you, but when I hit the apex, I hit the throttle and accellerate.

[zenkidori]

I hit your mom's apex last night.

[ryosuke]

yeah, but i'd say america has hit the throttle a bit too hard and is going to spin!


the signs are there...its not going to happen very fast, but i don't see any reason why it should stay on top, yet quite a few that herald a decline.
rome may have lasted long, but today these developments happen much quicker.
china, india, asia as a whole are on their way. the allies in europe have been annoyed. america imports more than it exports. the american car industrie has suffered a lot and is only really selling on the domestic market while asian and european manufacturers sell all over the world and more and more in the US.
companies from europe are taking over US ones (alcatel vs. lucent atm...)
huge overspending by the bush government...
and that is no anti-americanism, because the same is happening in europe...
the future is in asia...

[jayjaya29]

I love America to death, truely I really love this country. However....the future is in Asia. Its no doubt, there are a plethora of moral and ethical problems that our country is running into, and the solutions to these problems will mean massive culture change, something that Americans do not want.

I can also feel it...while watching the news, reading editorials, and other media, I can feel how America isn't standing as tall as it used to be.

I hope that our next president will address this problem in some way, I do not want America to decline, we need a strong national government and a very strong and creative national leader to get ourselves back up. I am sorry, but President Bush has not helped the situation very much.

If I were President, I would actually want to push America back into a period of isolationism, so that we can focus on ourselves and clean out the closets of the country. We need server maintence before serving other countries. There are so many problems here that need attention, yet we focus too much time and resources on other country's problems.

[Viper007Bond]

Originally Posted by ESPNSTI

Don't know about you, but when I hit the apex, I hit the throttle and accellerate.

Anyway, I can't say that I've been happy with this coutry for the past 6 years or so, but Presidents, administrations, policies, etc. come and go. Things will turn around -- people will get fed up with lack of personal rights and see through the terrorist hype and it'll go back, but that's another story.

Simply put: sorry, you won't be getting rid of us soon. Sure, we have trouble competeting with China and such, but for how long will the Chinese people put up working like slaves? It was like that here in 100 years ago, then unions and stuff came around and times have changed. The same will happen there, assuming their BS government (don't get me started on them BTW) doesn't put the hammer down.

Oh, and for fun, let's get this site blocked in China. Ready? 3..2..1...Go: China sucks!

There we go, we should be banned soon.

[zenkidori]

LOL. Mao is a homofag and all your noodles are belong to us!

peasants revolt!

[hajj]

Originally Posted by Viper007Bond

Things will turn around -- people will get fed up with lack of personal rights and see through the terrorist hype and it'll go back, but that's another story.

Simply put: sorry, you won't be getting rid of us soon. Sure, we have trouble competeting with China and such, but for how long will the Chinese people put up working like slaves? It was like that here in 100 years ago, then unions and stuff came around and times have changed. The same will happen there, assuming their BS government (don't get me started on them BTW) doesn't put the hammer down.

True you will stay for a long time, unless something like the Great depression comes along again. An embargo on Iran could drive crude oil price upto $100 a barrel, and that would be a big problem for the US.
But at the moment the American economy is the largest in the world (GDP is around $13,000bn), and despite the little excursion in Iraq there is nothing around which could not be fixed.
I am not so sure about China at the other hand, the ratio between growth and investment is not too well, i.e. the chinese growth is inefficient in terms of investment put into it and secondly there is the problem with the human rights. I do expect that within the next 10-15years salaries and political participation of the chinese population will rise and that process could be harmful for the short term growth.
India on the other hand is a democracy, has the youngest population in the world and is a lot more resource efficient. So I would bet on them, but it will be close.

[zenkidori]

even a depression would only be a temporary setback. We spend a lot of money we don't need to, and if we got into trouble we could cut funding from those ventures to help out. we've got a lot of leverage.

[geoff_a_pult]

Not to mention the fact that the Chineese economy, and most of that of Asia, is based on serving the US and European economies. It is hard to surpass something when so much of you income is derived from it.

When China starts innovating instead of copying, and starts fueling it's own economy, then it will be time to start worrying. Granted, I don't expect that time is very far off.

[hajj]

Originally Posted by geoff_a_pult

When China starts innovating instead of copying, and starts fueling it's own economy, then it will be time to start worrying. Granted, I don't expect that time is very far off.

Yes that would change the world, but innovation or research and development require a rather free working enviroment and that is not going to happen so quickly in China.
For the US on the other hand it would be a huge problem if the Chinese government would ask for a repayment of dept.

[Topher]

I think the next centre of the world will defantly be in Asia (maybe South Korea or quite possibly Dubai City.

Reasons being that Korea is the home to many of major ship building companies Hyundai Heavy Industries for example. There econamy seems to be increasing very very fast as well as that

"Today, South Korea leads the world in per-capita high-speed Internet connections. South Korea is also a major producer of high technology products such as mobile phones and plasma screens. South Korea is also just second in leading the world in adopting new consumer technologies, right behind Taiwan. North Korea continues to use mostly outdated technology from the 1960s and 1970s." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea)

Dubai is also a possibility because

"With enormous construction and development in various industries, Dubai has attracted world attention through innovative real estate projects, sports events, conferences and Guinness records." (also from wikipedia)

They are advancing so fast, they have sooo soo soo many engineering things going on there at the moment like the palm island, world islands, Burj al-Arab (already finished) Dubai's land-reclamation projects — the three Palm Islands of Jumeira, Jebel Ali and Deira; The World archipelago; and the Dubai Waterfront — will be the largest man-made offshore structures in the world, housing villas, hotels, shops and holiday resorts.

The city has modern skyscrapers such as Emirates Towers, which are the 12th and 24th tallest buildings in the world [3], and the Burj al-Arab located on the Persian Gulf and is currently the tallest hotel in the world.

Emaar Properties is currently constructing what will become the world's tallest building, the Burj Dubai. It is expected to be completed in 2008.

In February 2005, the construction of Dubai Waterfront was announced [4], it will be 2½ times the size of Washington D.C., roughly seven times the size of the island of Manhattan. Dubai Waterfront will be a mix of canals and islands full of hotels and residential areas that will add 500 miles of man-made waterfront. It will also contain Al Burj, another one of the tallest buildings in the world.

Dubai has also launched Dubiotech. This is a new park to be targeted at Biotech companies working in pharma, medical fields, genetic research and even biodefense. The aim of this park is to foster the growth of this sector in Dubai and to utilize the region's talent in addressing this rapidly growing sector.

"The International Media Production Zone is a project targeted at creating a hub for printers, publishers, media production companies, and related industry segments. This project was launched in 2003 and is estimated to be completed by 2006.

A new project was announced on May 1st 2006 by the authorities. It will be called "Bawadi" and will consist of a 27 billion dollar investment intended to increase Dubai's number of hotel rooms by 29,000, doubling it fron the current figure offers now. The largest complex will be called "Asia, Asia" and will be the biggest hotel in the world with more than 6,500 rooms"(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubai)

They have soo so soo much oil there as well, yes it will probably evenutally run out but still currently what do most countries need? and who tends to have alot of it. Mostly they just have so much contruction, business, etc etc going on there its hard to ignore. Plus the buildings beaches cities are beautiful !!

"In many areas, it is not easy to see Dubai's sky without at least one crane in your view; some say 16% of the world's large construction cranes reside in Dubai. Construction in Dubai and the UAE in general is a much faster process than in any Western country." (wikipeida.org)

Basicly you gotta admit that its pretty damn cool, they will have to be in one of the top cities even if its just for engineering and construction things. Also got worlds largest indoor ski slope.

Sorry about quoting and stuff just easier than typing it out in my own words.

[haha604]

^ While growth in South Korea and Dubai over the last two decades had been very impressive, size matters when it comes to achieving overall global dominance.

[zenkidori]

The next global superpower is Ethiopia.

[Ultra_Kool_Dude]

I read a book called "The China Dream" and now I definately think that China will not even come close to surpassing the US in this century.

It said that it is important to look at the "inputs" that are causing growth. Asian growth is fueled by (foreign) investment while American growth is fueled by productivity improvements.

[haha604]

^ All growth is fuelled by productivity improvements. China's growth comes from its adoption of the market economy and western technology, both of which increase economic efficiency. The origin of investements is not a big issue. Japan and Korea funded its own industrial clouts and did not rely much on foreign investments. What they did rely on were foreign markets.

[Ultra_Kool_Dude]

^ I believed that too, but I suggest you read the book I mentioned because it debunks a lot of the myth about China.

Growth can come from things that aren't productivity increases. For example, a country can cause growth by increasing the workforce participation rate, or increasing the hours of each worker per week. This sort of thing has very finite limits. Investment also increases demand as money flows into an economy, but it doesn't neccessarily improve productivity.

Things like cement are made in China still using 100 year old inefficent technology.

[CanadianLoonie]

Originally Posted by Viper007Bond

Oh, and for fun, let's get this site blocked in China. Ready? 3..2..1...Go: China sucks!

There we go, we should be banned soon.

Originally Posted by zenkidori

LOL. Mao is a homofag and all your noodles are belong to us!

peasants revolt!

Good thing I didn't read this thread as I was in China when these posts were made.

[haha604]

Originally Posted by Ultra_Kool_Dude

^ I believed that too, but I suggest you read the book I mentioned because it debunks a lot of the myth about China.

Growth can come from things that aren't productivity increases. For example, a country can cause growth by increasing the workforce participation rate, or increasing the hours of each worker per week. This sort of thing has very finite limits. Investment also increases demand as money flows into an economy, but it doesn't neccessarily improve productivity.

Things like cement are made in China still using 100 year old inefficent technology.

Long-term growth comes only from productivity increases, and investments (such as building schools, highways, factories) generally increase economic efficiency. I've been intrigued by the Chinese economic transformation since 5 years ago, and have read a great deal of books on the subject and formed my own opinion of the country. I've seen in person the glitz and glamour of the country's eastern seafront and the desperate poverty of its rural villages. Personally I don't have any doubts it will follow the development paths of Japan and the Asian 'Tigers' and achieve with western levels of personal income in this century. Most 'consumer type' books on China are either too optimistic or pessimistic, and I find it hard to agree with most of them.