how free are your countries journalists?

[TomCat]

Originally Posted by nomix

...
Hidden_Hunter: Usually, one looks at the number of journalists in prison for not disclosing their sources, ...

Things that'll get you further down on the list is restrictive slander laws ...

... journalists sent to prison for not disclosing their sources ...

I'm extremely curious how often those 2 points clash. I certainly don't think slander/libel is something that should be allowed. There is too much BS and outright lies floating around in the media as it is. But if someone is accused of slander, but refuses to disclose their source(s), then what are they to do?

[Momentum57]

While I think that the assassination of Chauncey Bailey shows that there are those in the public who do not value journalistic freedom, the idea that the US is significantly lower than other countries is questionable.

Mumia Abu-Jamal is a cop killer as found by a jury of his peers. The idea that he is on this list as a former journalist is a joke.

The following is from Commonwealth of Pennsylvania v. Wesley Cook a/k/a Mumia Abu-Jamal, 30 Phila.Co.Rptr. 1 1995 WL 1315980 WestLaw

"Mr. Jamal had become separated from the broadcasting field and was driving a cab."

"Mr. Jamal's learned success and skill as a radio journalist cannot mitigate the fact that he shot and killed a police officer from point-blank range and without provocation."

"The record shows petitioner was deliberately uncooperative with his counsel, and was not prepared to cooperate with any attorney. He repeatedly insisted, as part of his strategy of portraying himself as the victim of political intrigue, that any ‘legal-trained lawyer‘ was an ‘employee‘ of the court, and would attempt to ‘hang‘ him"

"Only two black jurors ultimately heard the case because James Burgess, who was accepted by the Commonwealth, was peremptorily struck by petitioner and Jeannie Dawley was dismissed for violating sequestration."

"No witnesses were coerced or intimidated, nor is there any evidence...Furthermore, petitioner fails to explain how these alleged facts are relevant to his many theories of defense."

"as noted by the Pennsylvania Supreme Court, petitioner was offered appropriate financial support, and had more than adequate resources with which to investigate and try his case."

[gaasc]

Originally Posted by salle

less threats, imprisonments, killings, regulations and laws prohibiting freedom of the press and freedom of speach?

Wierd considering nobody of the press been threathened, imprisoned, killed, and they actually just removed a rule that limited freedom of speech.

Whereas in venezuela, if you say a word against Chavez, you are sure to ¨transfer¨ shortly.

[tigger]

Originally Posted by TomCat

... if someone is accused of slander, but refuses to disclose their source(s), then what are they to do?

It's been a while since I took a media law class, but I don't think it matters. The media outlet is the one who will be held responsible because they published the information. It doesn't matter if they reveal their source or not, although if it's true and the source can provide supporting evidence then there is simply no case. No matter how awful something is, it's not libelous/slanderous if there's any truth to it.

[nomix]

Originally Posted by TomCat

I'm extremely curious how often those 2 points clash. I certainly don't think slander/libel is something that should be allowed. There is too much BS and outright lies floating around in the media as it is. But if someone is accused of slander, but refuses to disclose their source(s), then what are they to do?

It's an interesting question. As I've noted before, one of my old teachers has four convictions for slander, in three of the cases he was even proven right in court, funnily enough.

That's the reason why Norway got low ratings earlier, but in the US, it's not slander laws, it's journalists don't disclosing their sources when they publish stuff that senate commitees and courts would like to know how they knew.

Originally Posted by gaasc

Wierd considering nobody of the press been threathened, imprisoned, killed, and they actually just removed a rule that limited freedom of speech.

Whereas in venezuela, if you say a word against Chavez, you are sure to ¨transfer¨ shortly.

Laws is not everything in that respect. Believe you me. If reporters without borders put them low on the list, they have a reason.

[AiR]

Originally Posted by gaasc

Wierd considering nobody of the press been threathened, imprisoned, killed, and they actually just removed a rule that limited freedom of speech.

My dear gaasc, you are incorrect, and I think you know it.

Reporters Sans Frontières motivation can be found at http://www.rsf.org/en-rapport182-Honduras.html

Here are some examples why RSF places Honduras on #128th place.

Zelaya has had a somewhat adversarial relationship with his country's large media outlets. The Inter American Press Association (IAPA) and the United Nations criticized murders of journalists during Zelaya rule. In 2008, an Organization of American States (OAS) organ expressed concern about "subtle censorship" exercised by awarding government advertising contracts in a way that favoured some news suppliers. In a similar vein, a non-governmental group, the National Anti-Corruption Council (CNA) released a report Censura sutil en Honduras: abuso de publicidad oficial y otras formas de censura indirecta (Subtle censorship in Honduras: abuse of official publicity and other forms of indirect censorship") in September 2008. For his part, Zelaya complains that he is discriminated against by the country's media: "No one publishes anything about me ... what prevails here is censorship of my government by the big media."

Reuters on 29 June 2009, describing the situation in Honduras as a "media blackout," reported that the military had shut down several TV stations, radio stations, and newspaper's websites. Among the TV stations closed were CNN en Español, TeleSUR, and "a pro-Zelaya channel." Reuters said that "the few television and radio stations still operating on Monday [the 29th] played tropical music or aired soap operas and cooking shows," and "made little reference to the demonstrations or international condemnation of the coup. . . ." A government health worker interviewed by Reuters said that the anti-Zelaya newspapers El Heraldo and La Tribuna, and "some television channels controlled by the opposition" were the only ones still broadcasting on the morning of the 29th. The Miami Herald reported that the "crackdown on the media" began before dawn on the 28th. It said that only pro-Micheletti stations were allowed to broadcast and that they carried only news friendly to the new government. On 29 June, four Associated Press personnel were detained and removed from their hotel, but then released.

TeleSUR journalist Adriana Sívori, who was in Tegucigalpa reporting the clashes between the police and protesters, reported that she was arrested by the military under threat, and had her passport seized. Her detention was confirmed by the Associated Press. As soon as the international community learned of the detention, and after the quick intervention of the Venezuelan ambassador in Honduras, the journalist and the staff who accompanied her were released. Sívori was reportedly assaulted by the soldiers who detained her. TeleSUR was, until the detention and quick release of journalist Sívori, the only channel that was broadcasting live on all developments in the political crisis.

On 3 July, Radio América journalist Gabriel Fino Noriega was murdered near La Ceiba

Two journalists working for teleSUR and two working for Venezuelan state media were threatened by police on 11 July. The teleSUR journalists had just returned to their hotel, the Clarion in Tegucigalpa, and saw the Venezuelan state media reporters being detained at reception. They in turn were ordered to stay in the hotel and wait for agents from immigration to check their papers, then leave the country as "there's nothing for you to report on here". The Venezuelan state media reporters were taken to a police station and held until 3:30 am on the pretext that their car was listed as having been used in a crime. They also were told to leave the country, and were escorted to the airport on 12 July, accompanied by representatives of Derechos Humanos (DDHH). Another group of four journalists, including an ACAN-EFE reporter, were held by police in their hotel in Tegucigalpa from early hours of the morning until 9 am on 12 July, allegedly on orders to wait for immigration authorities, which never materialized.

On October 10, Honduras' interim leaders put in place new rules that threaten broadasters with closure for airing reports that "attack national security," further restricting media freedom following the closure of two opposition stations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Ho...utional_crisis

[gaasc]

Originally Posted by AiR

My dear gaasc, you are incorrect, and I think you know it.

Reporters Sans Frontières motivation can be found at http://www.rsf.org/en-rapport182-Honduras.html

Here are some examples why RSF places Honduras on #128th place.

Zelaya has had a somewhat adversarial relationship with his country's large media outlets. The Inter American Press Association (IAPA) and the United Nations criticized murders of journalists during Zelaya rule. In 2008, an Organization of American States (OAS) organ expressed concern about "subtle censorship" exercised by awarding government advertising contracts in a way that favoured some news suppliers. In a similar vein, a non-governmental group, the National Anti-Corruption Council (CNA) released a report Censura sutil en Honduras: abuso de publicidad oficial y otras formas de censura indirecta (Subtle censorship in Honduras: abuse of official publicity and other forms of indirect censorship") in September 2008. For his part, Zelaya complains that he is discriminated against by the country's media: "No one publishes anything about me ... what prevails here is censorship of my government by the big media."

Wierd, i saw his 4th ballot ads in pretty much every channel

Reuters on 29 June 2009, describing the situation in Honduras as a "media blackout," reported that the military had shut down several TV stations, radio stations, and newspaper's websites. Among the TV stations closed were CNN en Español, TeleSUR, and "a pro-Zelaya channel." Reuters said that "the few television and radio stations still operating on Monday [the 29th] played tropical music or aired soap operas and cooking shows," and "made little reference to the demonstrations or international condemnation of the coup. . . ." A government health worker interviewed by Reuters said that the anti-Zelaya newspapers El Heraldo and La Tribuna, and "some television channels controlled by the opposition" were the only ones still broadcasting on the morning of the 29th. The Miami Herald reported that the "crackdown on the media" began before dawn on the 28th. It said that only pro-Micheletti stations were allowed to broadcast and that they carried only news friendly to the new government. On 29 June, four Associated Press personnel were detained and removed from their hotel, but then released.

TeleSUR is a Venezuelan channel, we don't get it here, all other media was working including CNN, i should know, it's what's on most often in my telly.

El Heraldo and La Tribuna are pretty much the only 2 newspapers sold here, the rest are owned by either one of them.

TeleSUR journalist Adriana Sívori, who was in Tegucigalpa reporting the clashes between the police and protesters, reported that she was arrested by the military under threat, and had her passport seized. Her detention was confirmed by the Associated Press. As soon as the international community learned of the detention, and after the quick intervention of the Venezuelan ambassador in Honduras, the journalist and the staff who accompanied her were released. Sívori was reportedly assaulted by the soldiers who detained her. TeleSUR was, until the detention and quick release of journalist Sívori, the only channel that was broadcasting live on all developments in the political crisis.

It's not like the situation was calm so you could work swiftly right

On 3 July, Radio América journalist Gabriel Fino Noriega was murdered near La Ceiba

True, then again Honduras is one of the most violent countries.....







....in the world
Quote:

Two journalists working for teleSUR and two working for Venezuelan state media were threatened by police on 11 July. The teleSUR journalists had just returned to their hotel, the Clarion in Tegucigalpa, and saw the Venezuelan state media reporters being detained at reception. They in turn were ordered to stay in the hotel and wait for agents from immigration to check their papers, then leave the country as "there's nothing for you to report on here". The Venezuelan state media reporters were taken to a police station and held until 3:30 am on the pretext that their car was listed as having been used in a crime. They also were told to leave the country, and were escorted to the airport on 12 July, accompanied by representatives of Derechos Humanos (DDHH). Another group of four journalists, including an ACAN-EFE reporter, were held by police in their hotel in Tegucigalpa from early hours of the morning until 9 am on 12 July, allegedly on orders to wait for immigration authorities, which never materialized.

again WTF is Venezuela is doing snooping in our political crisis

On October 10, Honduras' interim leaders put in place new rules that threaten broadasters with closure for airing reports that "attack national security," further restricting media freedom following the closure of two opposition stations.

The law was Abolished 2 days later with apologies from the awesomeness that is Micheletti

[AiR]

Who they are working for is irrelevant, as you can see RSF didn't rank your country low just to be mean, but because there is much that can and needs improvement. Much can be achieved with a general stabilization of the country, some with a change of attitudes.

[nomix]

You know, we have a national broadcaster in Norway too. It's called NRK, it's the only channel to actually have continual coverage of Latin America. Would you say that Norway were "snooping in your political crisis" if NRK were to report on the political crisis? How about Swedish Television SVT? And while we're at it, what about the bloody BBC?!

Freedom of the press, you should get one. It's free.

[gaasc]

^this is what happens when you argue with a journalist, while there is a hell of a room for improvement as of now, all of the opposition channels (1 telly, 1 radio) are working and going on about the thousands of dead people and everybody is repressed

[nomix]

I don't give a flying fuck, reporting from Honduras is not "snooping", it's reporting.

[gaasc]

^now, now we are getting away from the point here. sorry for insulting your journalist feelings.

even if all that stuff was happening, it still baffles me that Venezuela is more ¨free¨ than Honduras, even though it's ruled by the embodiement of the stereotypical south American dictator

[nomix]

The embodiement of the stereotypical south American dictator is right wing, anti-left and a lot more violent than Chaves.

That said, Chaves isn't what I'd prefer. He's a bad cup of tea. Not the worst cup of tea, but still a bad cup of tea.

I believe RWB have their reasons for placing Honduras where they placed it, and to be honest, I trust their judgement, especially since they don't have an agenda against the former president of said country, and like it or not, you do.

[gaasc]

Originally Posted by nomix

The embodiement of the stereotypical south American dictator is right wing, anti-left and a lot more violent than ChaveZ.

That said, ChaveZ isn't what I'd prefer. He's a bad cup of tea. Not the worst cup of tea, but still a bad cup of tea.

I believe RWB have their reasons for placing Honduras where they placed it, and to be honest, I trust their judgement, especially since they don't have an agenda against the former president of said country, and like it or not, you do.

I actually DO carry a little card based on one that is mentioned on TG that say's ¨I do not wish to help Mel Zelaya runs this country to the shithole for a lifetime¨ only that in spanish

[nomix]

Irrelevant, you have shown such a campaign against Zelaya you're credibility is quite soft.

This "snooping" argument, that's language from China in the 70s.

[gaasc]

Yes, i hate zelaya, i hope he spontaneously combusts.

i already apologized for the snooping part, i also hate Venezuela remember.

[nomix]

I don't think you hate Venezuela any more than I hate Sweden, but I do think you thoroughly dislike Hugo.

[salle]

Why hate another country? You'd most likely get along well with allot of the people from Sweden and Venezuela respectively if you got to know them and without your prejudices about said nationality getting in the way.
Or perhaps you hate their foreign policies that affect your countries of which I'm unaware, then it's still bad to grow to hate something, as that usually means you've thrown objectivity and reason out of the window and just let your emotions guide you.

[nomix]

That was my point. I hate Sweden as good neighbours hate each other, we have oil, you have Volvo, we have proper aquevit, you don't, we wanted the cell phone division, you wanted the cell phone division, we have expensive snus, you have cheap snus, we have Tormod Hermansen, you have Björn Rosenström.



Edit, misunderstanding, but I won't turn down a good opertunity to do some Sweden-bashing.

[salle]

it's okay nothing you can say will offend me... Norweigans just sound so damned funny when they speak. you have seen Björn Gustavson's bit when he's imitating the Norweigan maffia?