If you are in The City of Brotherly Love and don't tip, expect to be arrested.

[Dogbert]

Originally Posted by Ladamaha

I guess it's a never ending cycle then. We damn foreigners don't tip because we get poor service and we are not given proper service because we don't tip because we get poor service.

Actually, the problem starts with wait staff not knowing why they aren't being tipped. If a server doesn't get a tip, 99% of the time they just automatically assume that the customers must have been ungrateful tossers, and continue about like nothing they're doing is wrong.

Originally Posted by Ladamaha

If there is a mandatory fee, it should be stated as mandatory or it's communism!

...

Originally Posted by Dogbert

Not only that, it's very likely that it was spelled out for them on their menu, so they knew about this gratuity/tax/charge/etc. before they even ordered.

Originally Posted by Dogbert

It's spelled out on the menu and the receipt of pretty much any restaurant I've ever worked at, and for that matter, dined at. It's not like this was any surprise to them.

Originally Posted by Castle

If the menu at the pub states that an 18% service charge will be added to the final bill for parties of X amount or larger then the customer is absolutely obligated to pay it.

[Ladamaha]

What I meant was that if they want to enforce a fee it should be stated as service charge, or fee not as gratuity because that means it's voluntary.

And yes, we damn foreign trash are all anal all the time 24/7 and carry a dictionary with us...all the time.

edit.

On a related note for understanding the culture, how are the prices of stuff labeled over there in shops? Do they have tax on them or not? I've heard it gets added when you pay, but is this true or was someone scammed?

[Dogbert]

Tax is never included on the label.

[Ladamaha]

Originally Posted by Dogbert

Tax is never included on the label.

I see, so you have a thing for adding percentages. Helps to understand the way of thinking I guess.

[nomix]

Originally Posted by Karoug

No i was listening to some Norwegian professor that visited our uni a few weeks ago, it was his idea actually..

He wasn't supposed to tell you that. Who was it? Norway will have to remove his right to wear viking helmets, drink aquevit and eat lutefisk.

Damn it, that was suposed to be a SECRET!

Originally Posted by Dogbert

Tax is never included on the label.

That's silly as a fox that's not a professor in cunning at the Cunning University.

[SirEdward]

Wow... mandatory gratuity.

Now that's an oxymoron! I think sometimes people should stop for a minute, clear up all the mess and just give the things their real name back. Call it whatever you like, but not gratuity.

Otherwise, what will you call real gratuity?

Beureaucratising words is senseless.

---------------------

On tips. Here, there are no tips. At all. Probably the culture is more trying to get a discount than leaving some extra money. However, the thing works perfectly fine. You have what you drink or eat, plus a (almost standard) fixed charge for service. Drawback is, it is very difficult for waiters to get more than their standard (often minimum) wage.

tips still exists, they are used to rewards very good service.

And I quite like not having to pay a tip, it avoids many bad situations.

--------------------

Originally Posted by Momentum57

Here is the reason for tipping. T.I.P. To Insure Promptness I frequently go to a place where because of my tips they know my name, the owner/manager shakes my hand, the bartender knows my drink and will by pass people waiting to make mine, the food comes faster and the service is miles of smiles.

That's not such a bad thing, but I don't like it too much. It resembles to me, in a small scale, to mafia way of thinking and acting: I do a favour to you (pay you significantly more than other customer), you do a favor to me (you treat me better than everyone else and you use me some... respect).

The difference between a good frequent customer and a privileged who is getting something other people are not entitled to is almost as subtle as the difference between rewarding the waiters for a good service and expecting something better than other people because you are going to be "generous".

Haggling is being thrifty enough to know that a penny saved is a penny earned. I bought a Multifunction Printer for significantly less just by asking. Every dollar saved I put into the market this spring and that little bit more every time stacks up.

Haggling, on the contrary, can be interesting sometimes. But not always. Standard practice, for me, should be "this is the product, this is the price."

[Plissken]

Only in the US can it be acceptable that the better I am at my job, the less my employer can pay me.

And if I'm spectacularly good, he gets me for free!

[Momentum57]

Originally Posted by SirEdward

That's not such a bad thing, but I don't like it too much. It resembles to me, in a small scale, to mafia way of thinking and acting: I do a favour to you (pay you significantly more than other customer), you do a favor to me (you treat me better than everyone else and you use me some... respect).

The difference between a good frequent customer and a privileged who is getting something other people are not entitled to is almost as subtle as the difference between rewarding the waiters for a good service and expecting something better than other people because you are going to be "generous".

Ya it does not really work unless your a frequent customer if you tried to give your tip up front work staff would think your an ass.

Originally Posted by SirEdward

Haggling, on the contrary, can be interesting sometimes. But not always. Standard practice, for me, should be "this is the product, this is the price."

I ask all the time because its an extra few moments and if the answer is no then no loss. Hotels are great for this (if you haven't booked early online to take advantage of the discount) during off seasons and late at night hotels have a number. It is the loss of not having it occupied and what your offering. Come in at 1am ask whats the lowest rate for the night then take 20 dollars off and work up from that point.

Originally Posted by Plissken

Only in the US can it be acceptable that the better I am at my job, the less my employer can pay me.

And if I'm spectacularly good, he gets me for free!

Not true the employer is paying your health insurance, SSI and disability insurance. So they have to match your pay to Social Security Insurance

[Cobol74]

Originally Posted by jayhawk

I'll let you in on a secret...no, actually it is a fact: here, foreigners usually get much poorer service than citizens. Why? Because of your stance on ignoring a country's customs.
Here, the rule of thumb is 10% for an individual, 15% for a couple up to six people, then after that whatever the house decides. I guarantee you that if you came to America and ordered with that accent of yours, and the teeth, and the glasses (which all shout EUROPEAN! to the waitstaff), your order would be literally placed on the back burner.

It's the whole "a few rotten apples spoils the barrel" philosophy. And you know who are the worst tippers? Germans.

Jay did not happen to me - we read the advice that Virgin Air supplied and we got excellent service from the staff in the restaurants in Orlando - Outback was especially good - really swift, and we had chats with the staff between courses about the recent election amongst other things. I think they may have spotted that we were English.

OK IMHO how it should work - minimum wage is the minimum wage - you get that. All tips are tips and are either yours or go into the staff pool. The prices should reflect the costs of staffing at the hourly wage rate - but what do I know.


http://payandworkrightscampaign.dire....uk/index.html

"Workers aged 22 or over should get the National Minimum Wage of £5.80. If you think you are paid less, call the free Pay and Work Rights Helpline in confidence for help getting you what you are entitled to."

One final thing I think it is rare that VAT is not included in the price over here.

[Twerp128]

Originally Posted by Plissken

Only in the US can it be acceptable that the better I am at my job, the less my employer can pay me.

And if I'm spectacularly good, he gets me for free!

Even the land of socialism can understand minimum wage laws. I'd say this system rewards the good workers more than a flat hourly rate.

[Plissken]

Originally Posted by Twerp128

Even the land of socialism can understand minimum wage laws. I'd say this system rewards the good workers more than a flat hourly rate.

By reducing their pay?

Even the land of capitalism can understand mathematics.

[narf]

Originally Posted by Twerp128

I'd say this system rewards the good workers more than a flat hourly rate.

Mandatory gratuities/forced tips/service charges are unrelated to service quality, worker performance, etc.
You *have* to pay, whether the service was excellent or crap.


On the other hand, a system where the basic pay is there and every tip happens only when/if the customer is fully satisfied would really reward good workers beyond their flat hourly rate.
The flat hourly rate pays you to work there, the tips reward you for excellent service.

[IceBone]

^^ +1

[Twerp128]

Originally Posted by narf

Mandatory gratuities/forced tips/service charges are unrelated to service quality, worker performance, etc.
You *have* to pay, whether the service was excellent or crap.


On the other hand, a system where the basic pay is there and every tip happens only when/if the customer is fully satisfied would really reward good workers beyond their flat hourly rate.
The flat hourly rate pays you to work there, the tips reward you for excellent service.

Ok so. . .

Europe

Servers make a bigger flat rate, and the rare added tip for good service. (You guys have admitted you very rarely give out tips)

Restaurants pay more to servers, but also make more per meal

America

Servers make a small flat rate, but are tipped by every customer according to the service. And are compensated by the restaurant to make sure they at least earn minimum wage.

Restaurants pay less to servers, but make less per meal.

What's the big deal?

[narf]

Originally Posted by Twerp128

Europe

Servers make a bigger flat rate, and the rare added tip for good service. (You guys have admitted you very rarely give out tips)

Restaurants pay more to servers, but also make more per meal

Pretty much yes.
(numbers made up, just as a rough reference) If a "normal" family of four goes out to eat and maybe gets a 40€ bill you'd give 40€ if service was crappy, maybe 42€ if it was ok, maybe 44€ if it was good.

America

Servers make a small flat rate, but are tipped by every customer according to the service. And are compensated by the restaurant to make sure they at least earn minimum wage.

Restaurants pay less to servers, but make less per meal.

Aha, "according to the service"? This thread is about forced mandatory non-voluntary required gratuities. Those are unrelated to the service, and do not reward the waiter for good service - or punish him for bad service.

[brydiem]

Originally Posted by Red_Bull

We dont generally tip in Australia. If it is done, it's mainly because of our exposure to US customs over the years, and even then it would have to be pretty damn good service. Restaurants and their staff don't usually expect it so you're not upsetting them by not tipping.

This. There are service charges for Sundays/public holidays when wages are higher, but this is normally only 5-10% and there are no charges for larger parties. Most places around here don't actually accept tips because there is no system in place for them to accept it- I know that at my work (ok, it's a maccas, but still) I have to refuse the tip and put it in the Ronald McDonald charity box if they insist on giving the money to me.

The only times I see tipping occur is little jars with a "tips appreciated" sign on the front for loose change. That or boxes for loose change for charities. I only put money in these if I can assure the money is going to a registered charity (shop down the road was claiming that money was going to orphans overseas when they were really just pocketing the money tax-free) or my regular haunts that have tip jars. Only one in every 10 places would have a jar though, tipping really is uncommon over here.