In your country too?

[Jostyrostelli]

I was wondering a couple of thing...
You may have heard about the murder on Theo van Gogh (moviemaker/writer) and you may also have heard it was an Moroccan extremist (spelling???) who had connection with some terrorist organization following the Islam (in the wrong way is my opinion)
Because Theo van Gogh called Abu Jahjah the prophet's pimp. Abu Jahjah had said some things like "every dead american is a victory for the Islam". They called names at eachother and wrote columns about it in the newspapers.

Now that has happened (together with the murder on Pim Fortuyn one year ago) people (government) keep hammering on: freedom of speech is under attack, we should do something, wtf is going on here..etc etc.

People here in Holland all have different opinions, and some extreme opinions too. Like "all immigrants back to their own country". Since Theo van Gogh was murdered this is getting on more and more people here. I hear students at school saying "get rid of them all!" (Moroccan people)

It has even got so far that muslim mosques are being torched as a retaliation for the murder on Theo van Gogh. Even muslim schools have been set on fire. Yesterday some armyforces in Den Haag (The Hague) infiltrated a house were possible terrorists were living. They where thrown a handgranate and it took them a whole day to capture them.

This is not getting us anywhere and this country is getting more f.cked up by the day.

Not so much for america but for other europeans here, is this "immigrant-issue" playing in your country too? I feel like it's Holland only..never hear anything on the news about such things abroad.

[bone]

because of the fact theo van gogh has been murdered, there has also been set fire to some islamic schools in belgium (if it rains in holland, it drizzles in belgium...)

"het vlaams blok" a belgian political party (which had more than 20% of the votes last time) has been convicted for racism this week, so it's not only in holland

i think it's a very bad thing what happened to theo, and i hope people will finaly start opening their eyes and see they're fucking it all up with their left bullshit

(and i didn't know abu jahjah is still in politics, he tried in belgium, but got totally toasted by the media and the other parties )

[Jostyrostelli]

Wasn't Het vlaamse blok forbidden or something, heard about that?

Government doesn't do anything..the guy who killed Theo van Gogh was know as a "person with terrorist background" for 2 years!! He wasn't ïmportant enough to arrest,.."ya then we would arrest EVERY terrorist..who do you think we are?! Duhh"
That's our government these days, and now we are going in "debate", to tell everybody what we should have done, and what we hope to do in the future. All very informative but f.cking Balkenende and his friend should go on the streets and see what's really happening. He had a bacterial infection on his foot, and got the top notch medical treatment. Doctors from everywhere came to help. As "we" know have to pay about 25% of your dental treatments and before you have that, you'll have to wait about 15 years on the waitinglist...but he never knew it..he just had his cup of chocolate and his cable telly watching the flintstones

[bone]

that was my first taught when i heard of the siege in den haag, there is no problem what so ever, until sth happens, and then it's: "sure there are terrorists there, we know that, and NOW we will go arrest them"

as long as nobody is killed, they don't do anything wrong

THEY JUST DON'T FIT IN!!! (and don't want to fit in either)

[Jostyrostelli]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against Moroccan people, I have lots of morrocan friends, but it bothered me that lots of people now think ALL muslim people are terrorists..and that these actions (mosques and schools are set on fire) get bigger by the day. I think the government should be more tougher.
Just, anybody who has something to do with terrorists or terror-groups, send them back. May sound a bit stupid, but you don't want those people here if you want a safe country. There is so much wrong with this country...

[ESPNSTI]

Originally Posted by Jostyrostelli

"get rid of them all!"

I don't live in Holland anymore, but I think this sentiment is definitely not the right direction for the country.
This is not a new thought either unfortunately, there has always been racism towards immigrants in Holland.

[Jostyrostelli]

Sure it has, and those people who are racists are not going to change their mind..but they only said the were racists. Now it going like "You say something about muslims, I'll kill you!" "Ohhhh you killed Theo, my rolemodel, now I'm gonna light up your kids school g.dd.mnit"
I know racism has been there for years, since people from morocco, turkey etc were brought here to work for "us"...they were on their own, but now it's like the 4th generation and it's getting worse, I know it's just a relatively small group who does this racists acts and hate musims or otherwise, but I think it's going the wrong way. It's getting public, newspapers are full of these things nowadays..

[swek]

You might remember the incidents in the mid 90's where Neo Nazis lit up the asylum-seekers drop-in center where nearly 150 Persons lived.

And all the Residents stood by and did nothing. This Photo dominated the Headlines in Germany the Day after.

Our National Pride

There was no other Attack that big since then but the NPD a Party with close ties to the Neo Nazi Movement has gained 13% of the votes in Saxonia and some Nazis in Bavaria tried to blow up a Synagogue.

I don't believe that anything has changed since then. You hear the politicians talking about integration but Foreigners and Germans still live in two different worlds.

On the other Hand there was the "Caliph of Cologne" who fougt with his followers for the the Sharia in Germany and Claimed a Fatwah on his Competitor who later got killed.

Then there were the 11.9 Terrorists who Studied in my hometown and seemed to be fully integrated into Society. You know what happened.

[sledgehammer]

This is a bit off topic but I thought since the topic has been brought up I might as well ask. Swek, I have a question that you might be able to answer since you are from Germany.

I am an indian student studying in the US. I am planning of going over to germany in January as part of an exchange program from my college. I will be working for 3 months and then studying for another 4.

What I want to know is, what can I expect in general from people? You mentioned that foreigners and germans live in different worlds. Is this sentiment present across the country or only in some parts?

The last time I visited Germany (was in Karlsruhe for about 10 days) I had no problems at all. However, since I am staying longer this time I may have different experiences.

On the topic at hand, I can't say about immigration, but because of the acts of extremist followers of islam, the whole religion is facing enormous problems. Although, I am not a muslim myself, I have heard numerous people here in the US abusing muslims or speaking about the whole religion in a negative light.

I grew up in the Middle east in UAE and in my 20 years there I have never faced any problems at all for being non muslim. Nor did I ever see any form of hate crimes against people of other religions staying there. Infact, despite the US media portraying the muslims as haters of all western people, this was never the case in the UAE. It is always the actions of a few people that get used as the stereotype.

Personally, I believe that religions are a flawed concept but not without its uses. In my opinion, most religions were started out to organize society and provide some guidelines and rules to everyone's life. These essence of these rules and guidelines can be used even today. However, they were written 2000 or so years ago trying to apply them in the literal sense just does not make sense! I dont see people have to start killing others over something as trivial as a 2000 year old piece of text!

[swek]

I don't think you have to worry about your stay in Germany. The Neo Nazi movement became realy popular in the former Eastern States of Germany (Where the Attack took place) due to high unemployment rates and frustration among the people. You shouldn't have any problems in western Germany. Maybe you will ran into some assholes but let's face it they exist everywhere

What I want to know is, what can I expect in general from people? You mentioned that foreigners and germans live in different worlds. Is this sentiment present across the country or only in some parts?

You will deal with my Generation which has left nationalism behind, so it depends on you I think. If you're a funny open minded guy you should have no problem at all meeting new people.

If you want to now anything else PM me

[Jostyrostelli]

No it's not that bad in Holland either, you don't get people name calling at you because you are "from wherever". At least not in my tiny village
I hear some storys about gaymen getting name called by muslim youth in Amsterdam...but I think you have those everywhere

[sledgehammer]

You will deal with my Generation which has left nationalism behind, so it depends on you I think. If you're a funny open minded guy you should have no problem at all meeting new people.

Yeah thats what I thought it would be like. Like I said, I had visited once before and I had a blast while I was there. No problems at all. Infact this summer I worked with Siemens here in the US and there were a whole bunch of German interns with me. To say the least, I had a blast with them!

Ofcoure as you said, there are the occasional assholes everywhere but that doesnt really matter at all. Thanks for the info!

[Ultra_Kool_Dude]

Nothing ever happens in Canada.

We're too busy trying to keep the French from running away.