Labour wins crunch vote on 42 day terrorist detention.

[Peter3hg]

Prime Minister Gordon Brown has narrowly won a House of Commons vote on extending the maximum time police can hold terror suspects to 42 days.

It appears 37 Labour MPs joined forces with Conservative and Lib Dems to vote against the proposals.

But that was not enough to defeat the plan ministers claim is needed to deal with complex terror plots.

It was passed by 315 MPs to 306 votes. It will come as a big boost to Mr Brown after his recent troubles.

But shadow home secretary David Davis says it "wasn't the argument that won the day - it was the Labour whips' office" .

He said the government had lost the argument "hands down" but had "bought the vote" - with promises to Labour backbenchers as well as the nine DUP MPs who are thought to have voted with the government.

'No legitimacy'

Mr Davies said the Tories, Lib Dems and crossbench peers would vote against Anti-Terror Bill when it went to the House of Lords - predicting it would never become law.

"It has no authority, it has no legitimacy and it will be thrown out," he added.

Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg said it is a "very sad day indeed for the great tradition of liberty that this country has represented".

But Tony Lloyd, chairman of the Parliamentary Labour Party, says the result leaves the government "very much in tune with what the nation wants" and accuses other parties of acting "opportunistically".

Lord Carlile, the government's independent reviewer of anti-terror legislation, said he was also pleased with the outcome. "I'm satisfied that Parliament has done the right thing today.

"I've consistently said that this very highly protected new law is needed.

"Of course it now has to go to the House of Lords and be debated afresh there and the government will certainly have difficulties in the House of Lords."

'Very tight'

Cheers rang out earlier as the result was announced to a packed Commons chamber after a five-hour debate.

But Conservative and Liberal Democrat backbenchers pointed angrily at the DUP benches in the chamber, with one member shouting: "You were bought!" before Speaker Michael Martin intervened to restore order.

Downing Street had earlier again forecast that the outcome of the vote was looking "very, very tight".

Facing one of the biggest tests of his leadership, the prime minister had been personally calling Labour MPs to make the case for the extension.

One of the Labour rebels, John McDonnell, said: "Any attempt to present this as some sort of victory for the government will ring absolutely hollow.

"There will be widespread consternation among our supporters in the country seeing a Labour government prepared to use every tactic available in its determination to crush essential civil liberties, which have been won by the labour movement over generations."

Veteran former Labour MP Tony Benn said: "I never thought I would be in the House of Commons on the day Magna Carta was repealed".

He said he hoped it would be overturned in the House of Lords.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7449268.stm

Damn it, this is a big blow although they made so many concessions that I can't see it ever really being used.

[anti-net]

It'll properly get thrown out when it gets to the House of Lords, and then I suspect the Government will have to back down

[smib]

Wait, you guys have something called the House of Lords?
Fucking awesome.

[anti-net]

Originally Posted by smib

Wait, you guys have something called the House of Lords?
Fucking awesome.

Yup, there our Upper house, if you watch ALMS the Aston Martin Vantage GT2 car is driven by a member of the House, Lord Drayson

[Cobol74]

The House of Lords contains the Law Lords - like the guys of the supreme court,
(The House of Lords is the final court of appeal on points of law for the whole of the United Kingdom in civil cases and for England, Wales and Northern Ireland in criminal cases.)
The Lords Spiritual - Archbishops and bishops of the Church of England,

The normal members are not elected but appointed or are hereditary (dad was in - so to speak but this has been complicated recently and I am out of date on the exact constitutional position) and have limited powers of reform of bills and an ability to vote down Government Business. They are not allowed to vote on Finance Bills and by convention any legislation in a Government parties manifesto.

Recently it seems to me that they are a sight more democratic than the Commons.

/EDIT This is a really daft piece of legislation IMHO - of course the Police will use it and not for the purpose it was intended either.

[teeb]

Originally Posted by smib

Wait, you guys have something called the House of Lords?
Fucking awesome.

The head of the Royal Navy is called the First Sealord, which is a fantastic title. "I am the lord of the sea!"

Originally Posted by Cobol74

/EDIT This is a really daft piece of legislation IMHO - of course the Police will use it and not for the purpose it was intended either.

Agreed. The worst bit was the long trail of experts - including the head of MI6 - who said this wasn't needed. The police admitted too that there have been no occasions yet when this would have been needed, and that technically provisions to do this are squirreled into current law.

Basically, enough Labour MPs rebelled - 36 - so that the bill should have failed. But the DUP (Democratic Unionist Party of Northern Ireland) 's 9 MPs voted for it, amongst rumours that Gordon Brown had promised them hundreds of millions of pounds of extra benefits and subsidies for Ireland - something which isn't illegal but isn't exactly cricket. There were other such 'bribes' to Labour MPs who wanted to rebel - opposing American sanctions on Cuba at a forthcoming international meeting, support for ill miners, and so on.

[Cobol74]

If N.Ireland needed the money it should have been theirs any way - be interesting the first Irish Real/INLA/I have not yet given up mob IRA man nicked under this - I bet that never happens.

[teeb]

Originally Posted by Cobol74

If N.Ireland needed the money it should have been theirs any way

Agree, but as I understand it it was something like '£200 million (ish) from Irish water revenue that was destined for the UK Treasury will now remain in N.I.'.

Which implies above and beyond what they get / need already.

Also rumours that one of Brown's frontline team was offered a knighthood in order to 'buy' his 'yes' vote.

[Cobol74]

Interesting - why do they need it particularly? Why did we need it? Surely it is to do with the N.Irish water supply so should be spent on the infrastructure - that is what the tax was for I presume!

[Peter3hg]

I can't see it getting through TBH. The House of Commons can go around the House of Lords but they have to wait for two Parliamentary sessions (two years) to do this and by then we may well have a different Government. This isn't the kind of thing that I can see the Conservatives letting through.