Militarization of Space

[Firecat]

Thoughts?

So far, it seems that the United States is the only country interested in putting weapons in outer space. I don't believe they have said it outright, but they won't support a proposal from China & Russia to ban weapons in space (conventional weapons, there is already a treaty that bans nuclear and WMDs). There also has been some talk about protecting U.S. interests in space.

[zenkidori]

I think it's great, along with the private firms moving into space. Anything that helps us move among the stars is good IMO. I'm a huge supporter of exploration and colonization. Look at how many significant advances came from the space programs of various countries in such a short time.

Besides the obvious benefit of spreading humans among the stars, think of the many materials that are plentiful elsewhere in the solar system but not here. There are asteoids that swing by earth every now and again that have trillions of dollars worth of precious minerals. Think about that for a minute, somone invests a couple billion dollars into an expedition there, and brings back a trillion dollars worth of minerals. That's a huge profit.

Military technology paves the way for civilian technology in the same arena, look at how much tech we use that came from the military as well.

BTW, China has a real hard on for space, that's a big part of the reason we're gearing back up.

[trionic]

Big problem in long term is who owns what in space. Believe it or not, even this star system will get cramped with mining and population spreading.

Already now some private companies are doing serious investing and planning over space mining. I guess some have even schedule.

When humans figure how to get stuff into orbit more easily, it will be wild wild west all over again.

[mmap]

Originally Posted by zenkidori

Think about that for a minute, somone invests a couple billion dollars into an expedition there, and brings back a trillion dollars worth of minerals. That's a huge profit.

Only thing is that the value of those metals is based on their rarity, so if a huge amount is suddenly brought to the market it will be worth considerably less... Economies will crash and crumble (well not really, but this is what some one will say). Or if the matel found is gold then consequences can be serious, a lot of the central banks hold reserves in gold and if the value of it suddenly drops then problems will follow.

[jensked]

I think we should be very careful about who gets what and so because before you know it, we're in another arms buildup.

Good thing about earth is: most of the land is owned by a country so there's not much to be fighting about, but in space nothing belongs to a certain country so you can expect a lot of fighting about who's entitled to what.

[zenkidori]

Originally Posted by mmap

Only thing is that the value of those metals is based on their rarity, so if a huge amount is suddenly brought to the market it will be worth considerably less... Economies will crash and crumble (well not really, but this is what some one will say). Or if the matel found is gold then consequences can be serious, a lot of the central banks hold reserves in gold and if the value of it suddenly drops then problems will follow.

Bullshit. Look at diamonds. They are controlled by few entities who control the market by false scarcity. Just because a company may have a huge reserve of minerals doesn't mean they are going to sell them off all at once. In addition, if they're the only company that has them in such large quantities, the price could lower and they'd be fine.

I don't see a turf war over anything in our solar system, it's much too vast and spread out for that to happen anytime soon. A country going into another's claimed territory may be given a nasty letter by the UN, but nobody is going to fire a shot over it.

a space "arms race" would be a good thing. a fast advance is a good advance. I can't understand people who want things to stay the same or change very little, that's not how progression happens.

[Firecat]

I do think that space exploration should be opened up to private firms. But there has to be some kind of oversight over what they do. I recall this article I read several months ago, apparently some scientists (not sure who) had reached (by drilling) the farthest into the earth so far. And I wonder, has anybody thought of the repercussions that may arise from this. I think they are almost at the mantle. Honestly, the scene from "The Time Machine" when the moon was splitting in half really sticks in my mind.

Anyway, back to space. I don't support putting weapons in space. I think the negative far outweighs the positive. And that has nothing to do with the environment or fear of change....just politics.

[mmap]

Originally Posted by zenkidori

Bullshit. Look at diamonds. They are controlled by few entities who control the market by false scarcity. Just because a company may have a huge reserve of minerals doesn't mean they are going to sell them off all at once. In addition, if they're the only company that has them in such large quantities, the price could lower and they'd be fine.

You seemed to miss the point... The theory regarding supply and demand is valid. Whether a company disades to artificially maintain scarcity is another matter. Also I wasn't talking about economical implications to the company "mining" the minerals as it would obviously be in a good position thanks to its own reserves. I was referring to implications on to the economies of nations / global economy. Which would be negatively affected by sudden flood of certain minerals to the global market.

[zenkidori]

oversight means regulation, regulation means bureaucracy, bureaucracy means slow(if any) progress.

perhaps in the future there will arise a need to regulate things, but for now, I don't see any reason at all. competition into the stars should continue unabated in order for us to reach our goals sooner.

Just FYI, there are already spacefaring weapons, and militarization doesn't necessarily mean that they are putting things up there that could kill people. GPS could be considered part of the space militarization.

plus think of the advantage of, say, a space based carrier. Take some fighter bombers that are capable of spaceflight and bam. you've got an instant strike squadron. The sea was and is the most important area to control as far as the miltary is concerned. With more and more going on in space, it only stands to reason that the reach of the armed forces should extend there as well. Say the US and China independantly start thier own extraterrestrial mining operations, should we leave them unprotected? It's not altogether difficult to make a rocket carry a nasty payload into space, so besides the possible threat from another spacefaring nation taking a pot shot at your mining rig, there is the small possability of a less well endowed country shooting at you as well.

Most of this is besides the point however. You need an excuse or reason to get funding approved for anything. If you want to go to space, you appeal to people's interests. Those interests used to be exploration, but now they are money and defense, so you appeal to those. Yes it's a bit less ideal, but it gets the job done. In every area of science that the military has been involved in, there have been huge advances, I think it would be foolish not to have that extend into space travel.

Also, there are already parts of the USAF that deal with space. besides the space command down here at norad, there is also the Space Warfare Center here in the springs.

who controls most of the things in orbit right now anyway? yep, the military. Space has already been militarized, so instead of fighting progress, why don't we reap the benefits and push for civilian travel/studies to piggyback on the military?

[YF19pilot]

Well, it may seem nice and all, but the Aussies are going to be pissed when that colony drop misses Jabaro...


To the success of Operation British, and the rise of Zeon!

[zenkidori]

[zenkidori]

X-37 test mostly successful.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12102149/#060407a