Obama wants to charge disabled veterans for treatment at VA facilities

[Spectre]

What. The. FUCK?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/...nce/index.html

Veterans Affairs Secretary Eric Shinseki confirmed Tuesday that the Obama administration is considering a controversial plan to make veterans pay for treatment of service-related injuries with private insurance.
Lawmakers say they'd reject a proposal to make veterans pay for treatment of war wounds with private insurance.

Lawmakers say they'd reject a proposal to make veterans pay for treatment of war wounds with private insurance.

But the proposal would be "dead on arrival" if it's sent to Congress, Sen. Patty Murray, D-Washington, said.

Murray used that blunt terminology when she told Shinseki that the idea would not be acceptable and would be rejected if formally proposed. Her remarks came during a hearing before the Senate Committee on Veterans Affairs about the 2010 budget.

No official proposal to create such a program has been announced publicly, but veterans groups wrote a pre-emptive letter last week to President Obama voicing their opposition to the idea after hearing the plan was under consideration.

The groups also cited an increase in "third-party collections" estimated in the 2010 budget proposal -- something they said could be achieved only if the Veterans Administration started billing for service-related injuries.

Asked about the proposal, Shinseki said it was under "consideration."

"A final decision hasn't been made yet," he said.

Currently, veterans' private insurance is charged only when they receive health care from the VA for medical issues that are not related to service injuries, like getting the flu.

Charging for service-related injuries would violate "a sacred trust," Veterans of Foreign Wars spokesman Joe Davis said. Davis said the move would risk private health care for veterans and their families by potentially maxing out benefits paying for costly war injury treatments.

A second senator, North Carolina Republican Richard Burr, said he agreed that the idea should not go forward.

"I think you will give that up" as a revenue stream if it is included in this April's budget, Burr said.

Murray said she'd already discussed her concerns with the secretary the previous week.

"I believe that veterans with service-connected injuries have already paid by putting their lives on the line," Murray said in her remarks. "I don't think we should nickel and dime them for their care."

Eleven of the most prominent veterans organizations have been lobbying Congress to oppose the idea. In the letter sent last week to the president, the groups warned that the idea "is wholly unacceptable and a total abrogation of our government's moral and legal responsibility to the men and women who have sacrificed so much."

The groups included The American Legion, Disabled American Veterans, Military Order of the Purple Heart, Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States, and Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America.

Anyone even *thinking* that this is a good idea needs to be thrown out of office!

Obama thinks that our disabled veterans should be a "revenue stream". Nice, huh?

[katwalk]

This doesn't sound like the shiny fluffy things he is supposed to represent D:
I mean really, from what I've heard VA hospitals fuck over the vets to begin with, so they are making it WORSE?


Also, illegal immigrants get the free health care still I'm assuming? This is totally fair! At the way this shit is going I'm going to end up killing myself out of disgust with the world by 25.

[freeferrarisdonotexist]

Ridiculous. I completely disagree with him on that. These men- and women, of course- have fought to defend the countries we live in (whether the "wars were right" or not is not the issue here).

Many of them died or lost friends or many other terrible things to protect the people who live in the country they fought for- the least we can do is provide them with healthcare.

[Rokovak]

Wow, that's awesome. Good to know that I gave several years of my life to this country just so the Obamination can even consider despicable shit like this. I don't know whether to say thanks or you're welcome.

[Spectre]

Yes, that's right folks, under the Obama administration's plan, illegal aliens will get free healthcare and soldiers will have to pay for getting wounded.

How can *anyone* even try to justify this?

[FATMOUSE]

That's...retarded.

[vikiradTG2007]

At one point, EVERY SINGLE POLITICIAN which is involved in some kind of leadership does something which makes him/her extremely unpopular. It's just that some do it early on and some do it at the end of their political life.

[the Interceptor]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/...are/index.html

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Veterans groups are warning President Barack Obama against going ahead with a possible administration move to charge veterans' private health care for service-related injuries.
Veterans groups say it's "wholly unacceptable" to charge their private insurance for service injuries.

In a letter sent by 11 of the most prominent veterans organizations, the groups warned that the idea "is wholly unacceptable and a total abrogation of our government's moral and legal responsibility to the men and women who have sacrificed so much."

CNN obtained a copy of the letter sent to the White House last Friday by groups including The American Legion, Disabled American Veterans, Military Order of the Purple Heart, Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States, and Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America. Read the letter (PDF)

A White House spokesman would neither confirm nor deny the option is being considered.

"The details of specific proposals will be transmitted with the full submission in April. The president has made it clear that meeting the needs of veterans is one of his priorities, and as a result has requested an 11 percent increase in discretionary funding for 2010, and the administration is actively working with the veterans community to ensure we get the details of this budget right," said White House spokesman Nick Shapiro.

In the letter, the groups said they have been told by sources on Capitol Hill and at the VA that the idea under consideration would allow the Department of Veterans Affairs to bill health insurance for a treatment of a disability or injury that was a result of military service.

The argument for the proposal is that it frees up money for the VA by charging the private insurers, allowing the VA to spend on more services, said Joe Violante, legislative director for Disabled American Veterans, who opposes the idea. While there could be savings, Violante warned it also could lead to an increase in premiums for veterans with private coverage.

""We cannot and would not agree to any proposal that would expand this concept any further," the heads of the 11 groups wrote in the letter.

"While we understand the fiscal difficulties this country faces right now, placing the burden of those fiscal problems on the men and women who have already sacrificed a great deal for this country is unconscionable."
Currently, veterans' private insurance is only charged when they receive health care from the VA for medical issues that are not related to service injuries, like getting the flu.

Charging for service-related injuries would violate "a sacred trust," said Veterans of Foreign Wars spokesman Joe Davis. Davis said the move would risk private health care for veterans and their families by potentially maxing out benefits paying for costly war injury treatments.

It could also make it harder for veterans to get private insurance if the companies decide to reject them for pre-existing conditions, rather than be billed for service-connected injuries, Davis said.

"This seems like bad politics and bad policy," said IAVA Policy Director Vanessa Williamson, noting that every veterans group opposes it and warns it will adversely affect veterans. "I don't see this as a tenable option."

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2009/0...rance_030909w/

Major veterans and military groups like the Obama administration’s proposed $4.9 billion increase in the Veterans Affairs Department budget for next year, but they don’t like some details, especially a proposal to raise money by billing veterans’ private health insurance for some of the cost of treating service-connected injuries, illnesses and disease.

The idea is not fully explained in the budget summary released by the White House on Feb. 26, but it appears to follow the concept of billing private insurance for government-provided health care to see whether some of the costs can be covered. Whether private insurers would pay anything would depend on their policies on serving as the second payer on medical expenses. Some insurance policies cover such costs and others do not.

Full details are not expected until late April, when the full 2010 budget is announced. But military and veterans’ groups didn’t wait for details before attacking the idea.

The national commander of Disabled American Veterans, Raymond Dempsey, called it “a betrayal of a sacred trust” that shifts some of the cost of treating service-connected disabilities to private insurance companies.

Glen Gardner Jr., national commander of Veterans of Foreign Wars, said his group “will work hard to defeat” the proposal. “Charging veterans for VA care they receive for service-connected disabilities and combat wounds is not how a grateful nation takes care of her warriors,” he said.

Gardner said such a policy could result in insurance companies charging more to provide health coverage for disabled veterans, and make it harder for disabled veterans to get and keep private insurance.

Although Gardner didn’t mention it, congressional aides said they also worry that businesses might be reluctant to hire a disabled veteran if some of the cost of treating a service-connected health problem has to be covered by the employer or the employer’s insurance company. Dempsey and Gardner represent two of the 11 veterans organizations that have complained to the White House, saying that they are willing to accept the idea that private health insurance can be billed to help pay costs for providing medical treatment for conditions not linked to military service, but stressing that they won’t sit still for anything beyond that.

“Such a consideration is wholly unacceptable and a total abrogation of our government’s moral and legal responsibility,” the 11 groups wrote in a Feb. 27 letter to President Barack Obama, administration officials and congressional leaders.

“There is simply no logical explanation for billing a veterans’ personal insurance for care that VA has a responsibility to provide,” the letter says. “While we understand the fiscal difficulties this country faces right now, placing the burden of those fiscal problems on the men and women who have already sacrificed a great deal for this country is unconscionable.”

Other groups signing the letter include AmVets, Blinded Veterans Association, Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America, Jewish War Veterans, Military Officers Association of America, Military Order of the Purple Heart, Paralyzed Veterans of America, and Vietnam Veterans of America.

The White House has not responded to the letter. Secretary of Veterans Affairs Eric Shinseki, who is scheduled to testify Tuesday before the House and Senate veterans’ affairs committees about the 2010 budget, is expected to be asked by lawmakers to explain why VA thinks billing private insurance is a good idea.

[Spectre]

Originally Posted by vikiradTG2007

At one point, EVERY SINGLE POLITICIAN which is involved in some kind of leadership does something which makes him/her extremely unpopular. It's just that some do it early on and some do it at the end of their political life.

This idea goes so far beyond "unpopular", I don't know where to begin.

This breaks the whole social contract between the civilians and the military. It severely undermines morale and could weaken national defense. It certainly would reduce the number and quality of recruits.

Originally Posted by the Interceptor

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/...are/index.html

The article is out of date, a bit - Shinseki has *confirmed* that the administration is looking to charge veterans.

Veterans should NOT have to pay for war wounds. PERIOD. END.

[Firecat]

"Private Smith, before we remove the shrapnel from your abdomen we are going to need to see a copy of your insurance card"

[Crazyjeeper]

Is he trying to get people to hate him?

[the Interceptor]

Originally Posted by Spectre

The article is out of date, a bit - Shinseki has *confirmed* that the administration is looking to charge veterans.

So far, they're only considering it. And since I can not imagine Obama would seriously propose such a thing without having a good reason to do so, I won't make a final judgement until I've heard the White House's side of the story.

EDIT: found more on the matter: http://www.vawatchdog.org/09/nf09/nf...nf031209-1.htm

[argatoga]

Wow. This is just terrible. The only thing I can think of that was worse than this off the top of my head is the Bonus Army Massacre in 32. If you are ordering someone to fight and risk their lives you fucking pay for their hospital bills.

This and the Brown fiasco makes me think Obama is just inept. He is another George W. Bush except he can do speeches.

[the Interceptor]

So now what, everybody has lost his/her voice?

Here's my coverage of the story:

• some youngster at the VA who doesn't know shit about life is told to save money
• he gathers a list of suggestions, including to charge veterans for all kinds of injuries
• that list is forwarded to Eric Shinseki, whose job is to consider such suggestions
• someone is told that there is such a suggestion, therefore he asks Shinseki whether this is true
• Shinseki agrees that he is looking into this matter, since that is what he's there for
• someone twists this to make it look like the White House is looking into making veterans pay their medical bills all by themselves

You guys recognize that something went terribly wrong in this chain of events?

[jayhawk]

This makes no sense, even in the topsy-turvy Obama administration.

If it does goes through, the DNC will lose every, and I mean EVERY vote from military personnel, past and present.

[ahpadt]

Isn't this war...veteran...thing a bit old fashioned?

[freeferrarisdonotexist]

This has seriously undermined my opinion on Obama. This will be even worse for those who were conscripted- not not only did they defend their countries, they were forced to do so, by a government that (apparantly) doesn't want them to get a damn thing for all they had done.

[Spectre]

Originally Posted by the Interceptor

So now what, everybody has lost his/her voice?

Here's my coverage of the story:

• some youngster at the VA who doesn't know shit about life is told to save money
• he gathers a list of suggestions, including to charge veterans for all kinds of injuries
• that list is forwarded to Eric Shinseki, whose job is to consider such suggestions
• someone is told that there is such a suggestion, therefore he asks Shinseki whether this is true
• Shinseki agrees that he is looking into this matter, since that is what he's there for
• someone twists this to make it look like the White House is looking into making veterans pay their medical bills all by themselves

You guys recognize that something went terribly wrong in this chain of events?

Shinseki should have rejected this out of hand, period. Instead, he kicked it upstairs and Obama & Co thought it was a good enough idea to think about. See, in American politispeak, "the Administration is considering" means "The President is thinking about."

Also, if it was just Shinseki considering it, he would have said thet *he* was thinking about it, not "the Administration."

This idea is on par with someone suggesting that a good answer to "how can we save money this quarter" is "Let's burn down the company offices."

Originally Posted by ahpadt

Isn't this war...veteran...thing a bit old fashioned?

Okay, put it to you this way. It's the equivalent of taking all the surviving Norwegian troops and resistance fighters that fought the Nazis in WW2 and urinating all over them.

Still think it's a good idea?

Originally Posted by freeferrarisdonotexist

This has seriously undermined my opinion on Obama. This will be even worse for those who were conscripted- not not only did they defend their countries, they were forced to do so, by a government that (apparantly) doesn't want them to get a damn thing for all they had done.

Er, point of order here - the US does not have conscription except in time of national emergency.

That said... the Democrats are talking about bringing conscription back, so this may be of concern at a slightly later point.

In the meantime, Obama and the Democrats seem to want to deprive my father of treatment for wounds incurred when he was fighting THEIR war in Southeast Asia, medical care he *earned* through two years of combat. To this day the man has partial hearing loss, limps when the weather changes and is carrying around something near a pound of shrapnel and medical hardware. He can't fucking go through a metal detector because the thing will go crazy. He paid the price for THEIR useless war, they spat on him when he came home, now they want to shaft him AGAIN.

These fuckers can go to hell.

[Rokovak]

Originally Posted by ahpadt

Isn't this war...veteran...thing a bit old fashioned?

Are you expecting to see some more-up-to-date hip terminology be tossed around? What are you trying to get at?

[Spectre]

Originally Posted by Rokovak

Are you expecting to see some more-up-to-date hip terminology be tossed around? What are you trying to get at?

He's from OOrope, where the armed forces are currently either a jobs program or a boy scout camp and not generally intended to be used as a real fighting force, with few exceptions.

I mean, after all, that's what the Americans are for, right? To do the real fighting?