Police Officer Goes Absolutely Bat-shiat.

[NecroJoe]

Originally Posted by watisdis

Hell, we're the ones who pay their salary to serve and protect.

Oh, yeah...and sometimes cops forget that, and it helps calm down the situation when you remind them of it. They realize that you are, in fact, their boss. Give it a try. I'm sure it'll work great.

Oh, and also make sure to say "I know my rights," because then they know that you are an intelligent person, and they will respect you, and know they won't have to explain simpler things to you.

Originally Posted by No Boss

That's what I kept thinking the whole time watching it. The way he was talking/yelling, the words he was using, and the manner of his cadence made me think he wasn't the smartest guy in the world.

He almost seems a little...I don't know...a little drunk, or maybe coming down from some coke...he sounded like english is his first language, but he was puttig together sentences for which my 2nd grade teacher would have "thrown the book" at me (figuratively speaking, of course).

[Blind_Io]

Originally Posted by No Boss

Not really sure what to make of this. On the one hand, the kid seemingly did nothing wrong. On the other hand, he did talk back to the cop dickishly several times.

Actually, it sounds to me like he wanted to know why the officer wanted his ID. Officers can't just ask for ID unless you have done something wrong - his question was legal and perfectly valid. It's his right to know why he is being detained. The kid actually understands his rights very well, towards the end of the video he said that he doesn't have to answer the cop's questions - he's right. The cop tries one of the oldest tricks by saying that if the answers are not incriminating then he should answer to prove his innocence; thus implying (or in this case stating) that if he doesn't answer then he must be guilty.

The kid played it just right, he knew there was a camera recording the whole thing and even told the officer. He upheld his rights and let the cop hang himself with his ignorance and stupidity. The one thing I would have done is asked to speak to the officer's supervisor, also asked for his name and badge number - all things you are legally entitled to.

Now, would I recommend you do this if you don't have a camera on you? Certainly not, but the kid knew the situation and he knew that he had control of the camera and didn't have to rely on the camera in the officer's car to show what happened.

[nomix]

Originally Posted by No Boss

I wasn't thinking of you more mature guys when I wrote that. I was thinking more of the Carsightings, Piddington, Goose+ persuasion. But I guess they don't frequent this forum that often.

"Political Discussion? I don't know shit about Clinton and Blair and Stalin."

[andyhui01]

Originally Posted by Blind_Io

Actually, it sounds to me like he wanted to know why the officer wanted his ID. Officers can't just ask for ID unless you have done something wrong - his question was legal and perfectly valid. It's his right to know why he is being detained. The kid actually understands his rights very well, towards the end of the video he said that he doesn't have to answer the cop's questions - he's right. The cop tries one of the oldest tricks by saying that if the answers are not incriminating then he should answer to prove his innocence; thus implying (or in this case stating) that if he doesn't answer then he must be guilty.

The kid played it just right, he knew there was a camera recording the whole thing and even told the officer. He upheld his rights and let the cop hang himself with his ignorance and stupidity. The one thing I would have done is asked to speak to the officer's supervisor, also asked for his name and badge number - all things you are legally entitled to.

Now, would I recommend you do this if you don't have a camera on you? Certainly not, but the kid knew the situation and he knew that he had control of the camera and didn't have to rely on the camera in the officer's car to show what happened.

I've heard this from a mate who does Law... according to him, if a police officer pulls you over and you decide to use a mobile phone or an iPod to record him, don't you have to inform him prior to speaking?

[zenkidori]

maybe in AU, but not here(at least in my state, I'm sure it's different for all states). Also, it'll be kinda obvious when you get out a recording device.

[Blind_Io]

Originally Posted by andyhui01

I've heard this from a mate who does Law... according to him, if a police officer pulls you over and you decide to use a mobile phone or an iPod to record him, don't you have to inform him prior to speaking?

I think there is some loophole about that. Some cops got out of something and managed to prosecute a bystander who video taped them because of a law about audio eavesdropping. Essentially it said you could video them, but the audio was illegal. I don't know if that law has been plugged or not.

It seems to me that if the cop doesn't have to inform you if you are on tape then you shouldn't have to inform him either. Assuming you are in a public area, everything should be free for the taking.

Short answer: I'm not sure, but with some of the fucked up laws it's possible.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

[conceptualman]

that sounds like a good idea having a camera with presumably a satellite or wireless feed to a remote place . i imagine it will be common in the future to have such an arrangement for the reasons obviated in this vid . if i go back to driving 18 wheelers i think i will use such an arrangement . back when i was driving before september 11 , there was the war on drugs and i was searched about 7 times within 2 years , sometimes without warrant or explanation . the last time , shortly after 911 i had finally had enough and was ready to invoke my 4th amendment rights to not be searched but finally relented but at least after my mention of the fourth amendment they took a minute or two to have a quick look and let me go ,but not before reminding me of some stuff on my truck that they could ticket me for if they wanted to .maybe that is what would have happened to me if i had said no ,but it could have gotten worse . i dont know . the cop questioning me was very nervous and kept feeling the butt of his pistol . his partner was behind him and touched his leg and he jumped about a mile .if he had been holding a gun on me when that happened , he might have shot my a** reflexively . if i get shot by a cop out there i would like there to be proof about the situation that the cops cant destroy . or whatever the situation .

yes when things like this happen it hurts the image of law enforcement and hurts their credibility .

there is responsibility with the departments to weed out the people whose motives for being a cop are not all correct . maybe a better system .

maybe the solution to the law enforcement is more individual rights to do something about anything . the citizen has less and less responsibility these days but with less responsibility also tends to be less rights . if there were some reforms in the the legal system to make that more possible , i think society could be much safer . i think even in rougher places it would be much safer without being a police state . the reason is , who would know the situation better , a person who saw it happen or the cop who arrived 15minutes later , or for that matter , who knows someone better , the cop who lives across town , or the neighbor who lives next door . i have always been more comfortable around regular people with guns than cops , like at gun shows , or shooting or whatever . it seems like some cops have too many boundary /territory issues for my comfort .

that having been said , i am sure most cops have the best intentions and want to make a difference in society . i know they are not out there to be gestapo goons . at least 51% , anyway but many are so wary as to be almost paranoid . that being said, i have met some very nice people who were cops .
i actually think many of the good cops would agree with me on a lot of what i have just written .

just a thought
G

[No Boss]

Update:

Apparently...wow, ok... apparently there is a forum for Missouri cops and they have been talking, anonymously of course, about this whole thing. This article contains some posts from topics about Darrow and his videography. If these posts are in fact true, then my god what kind of society is this?

LINK

Missouri: Cop Website Contained Apparent Death Threat Against Video Vigilante
Unofficial website popular with Saint Louis, Missouri police contained a death threat against Brett Darrow three months before his recent encounter.

CopTalkWhen stopped by an out-of-control St. George, Missouri police officer last Friday, motorist Brett Darrow feared for his life (view story and video). It turns out, he had legitimate reason for concern. Three months ago, participants in an online forum frequented by Saint Louis law enforcement personnel threatened to harass -- and even physically harm -- Darrow.

The messages appeared on St. Louis CopTalk, a site that describes itself as a site "for the use of law enforcement officers employed by the St. Louis Police Department and their supporters in the St. Louis Metropolitan area." While it has no official ties to the city, it does allow officers to log into official police email accounts from the front page. In June of this year, Darrow had sparked outrage among the forum's members after he videotaped a disputed traffic stop involving what Darrow argued was a perfectly legal turn and what a Saint Louis police officer said was not.

In the course of researching the incident, TheNewspaper learned from an inside source about a CopTalk posting dated June 29, 2007. A user calling himself "STL_FINEST" wrote the following item, presented unedited and in full:

in reply to "Who is this terd?"
I hope this little POS punk bastard tries his little video stunt with me when I pull him over alone- and I WILL pull him over - because I will see "his gun" and place a hunk of hot lead right where it belongs.

We verified the existence of the post which, until some time around July, was publicly available here. It has been deleted. Because the CopTalk forum allows anonymous posting, only the site's administrator has the ability to confirm the identity of a poster or his status as a law enforcement official. When contacted by TheNewspaper this week, the forum owner had no comment beyond, "Sorry, the posting log I have access to only contains the most recent 300 messages, and that particular message cycled off some time ago."

Still, participants did not disavow the posting. Instead, another added, "I'm going to his house to check for parking violations." We informed Darrow of the existence of the messages, but withheld publication not wishing to interfere with an expected investigation into officers' behavior at the well-publicized traffic stops. To our knowledge, no such investigation was ever made.

CopTalk now bans discussion of Darrow's videos. A message dated September 10 reads: "We are already very much aware of Mr. Darrow and his antics. There is no need to post any of his award-winning videography here." Still, discussions of last Friday's St. George traffic stop made their way onto the site for a few hours before being removed by the administrator. One poster expressed contempt for Darrow:

"Other than CYA and a heads up why do we give this [expletive] any thought? He lives for this type of [expletive]."

Another CopTalk user referred to a discussion on the online forum AR15.com by saying:

"I have a discussion going on another board where someone is basicly [sic] calling me a liar. The retards have even invited Brett to join to tell his side of what he does."

The firearms enthusiast forum began discussing Darrow's video on September 10. At least one other message from a self-identified Saint Louis area police officer appears to condone official harassment of the twenty-year-old motorist.

"Take the kid to jail... today... tommorrow... the next day... everytime you see him out and he commits a traffic violation... tow his car and take him to jail... period. No arguing, no yelling.....nothing but the sound of cash leaving his wallet from impound fees and fines." (view thread, view saved image of full post)

Unlike the CopTalk forum, however, neither this user nor any others in a sampling we made of the nearly 2000 messages posted on the AR15.com message thread supported the actions of St. George Police Sergeant James Kuehnlein. A number immediately condemned the self-identified officer's remarks.

The evidence shows that law enforcement problems extend far beyond the tiny geographic boundaries of 1300 resident city and that Darrow's video may have wide-reaching effects. The young driver's encounters with Saint Louis area police began in March 2005 when an intoxicated, off-duty police officer threatened to kill him. Darrow escaped only to find himself arrested hours later. The city agreed to drop all charges against him on the condition that he waive his right to sue over the incident. The following year, a Saint Louis officer at a DUI roadblock said he would, "find a reason to lock you up tonight" (view video and story). This is in addition to Sergeant Kuehnlein's videotaped threat that, "we will ruin your career and life and everything else you have coming before you."

The videotape from Kuehnlein's police cruiser is currently missing and the sergeant is currently on unpaid leave. St. George Police Chief Scott Uhrig is also being investigated by city officials who say he may have failed to inform them that the State of Missouri Administrative Hearing Commission concluded that, "Uhrig's unwelcome sexual advances to a teenager, while on duty and under the guise of enforcing the laws, indicate an especially egregious mental state, show that he cannot enforce the law, and are cause for discipline."

[zenkidori]

lol, and those chickenshit sad excuses for cops are wondering why this guy is out to expose bad cops?!

what a bunch of redneck sister fucking circle jerking douchebags.

/me plays some rage against the machine

[Momentum57]

My father was a Sgt. an Investigator, Interrogator, Chief Negotiator, and Polygraph Artist. Now that he is retired he does pre-employment polygraphs for smaller police stations around the state. I sat in on a few as an observer of these and found it interesting how he could get these guys to confess to stealing, drug use, visiting prostitutes, homosexuality, wearing womens underwear, violent behavior, and in one case that he wanted to use the badge to be powerful.
i
This guy to local department seemed like a good fit, but after an hour with my father he admitted that his experience with another department was in fact as a crossing guard for children. After having him stop crying and leave with a little dignity, my father said to me that that was perfect example someone who would be a pig of a cop. Some people get picked on when they are kids and then take it out on everyone the rest of their lives, and if he was to be hired he would be a liability to getting people shot.

Most police are generally nice people its only that they have to deal with shitty people all day that makes them worried that you will be shit to them from the start.

[tigger]

Originally Posted by zenkidori

/me plays some rage against the machine

Awesome idea; I just popped in Battle of Los Angeles.

Man this is some fucked up stuff. So not only is the Sergeant Kuehnlein a real pig of a cop, but his Chief Uhrig is under investigation for "sexual advances on a teenager"? I feel sorry for this Brett Darrow guy, if I were in his position I would have my car wired for sound and video too.

Most of the police that I've been (un)fortunate enough to deal with have been decent enough. Then just yesterday afternoon when my friends and I were walking to a college football game this unmarked cop Buick pulls up to take a look at my friends tea. (Checking for open containers of alcohol in public ) The officer just says, "Hey, whats that?", pointing at the plastic bottle of what is obviously tea. Amir holds it up, and the cops says, "Well, you're lucky." Unfortunately I can't really communicate tone online, but the officer said it like a real asshole. Amir said something like, "I'm lucky because I'm drinking tea? What the fuck?" And the cop just drove off. If cops want a better reception from people then they need to realize that the smallest impressions still weigh heavy in peoples minds. Coming off like a dick, even just for a brief moment, is still too long.
/rant .

[RoamingGnome]

I seriously hope this goddamned dickhead is fired w/o pension. This is blatant power abuse which frankly, should be punishable by a jail term

[zenkidori]

Originally Posted by tigger

Awesome idea; I just popped in Battle of Los Angeles.

Man this is some fucked up stuff. So not only is the Sergeant Kuehnlein a real pig of a cop, but his Chief Uhrig is under investigation for "sexual advances on a teenager"? I feel sorry for this Brett Darrow guy, if I were in his position I would have my car wired for sound and video too.

Most of the police that I've been (un)fortunate enough to deal with have been decent enough. Then just yesterday afternoon when my friends and I were walking to a college football game this unmarked cop Buick pulls up to take a look at my friends tea. (Checking for open containers of alcohol in public ) The officer just says, "Hey, whats that?", pointing at the plastic bottle of what is obviously tea. Amir holds it up, and the cops says, "Well, you're lucky." Unfortunately I can't really communicate tone online, but the officer said it like a real asshole. Amir said something like, "I'm lucky because I'm drinking tea? What the fuck?" And the cop just drove off. If cops want a better reception from people then they need to realize that the smallest impressions still weigh heavy in peoples minds. Coming off like a dick, even just for a brief moment, is still too long.
/rant .

you handled that pretty well, I'm lucky enough to not really have dealt with dick police officers(I have, but not often) but security guards always get me, and I never just let that shit slide. I'm always making sarcastic comments and generally being a dick, because I know they have no real power. probably not a good idea with a cop who could arrest you, but I always have witnesses, and I would sue the SHIT out of any cop who decided to make something up in the presence of others.

I did once call a cop a "fag" to his face, because I was asking very nicely how to get up to the amphitheater after a concert so I could work(I do backstage cleanup after shows), and usually there is a way for taxis and staff to get up, but after asking who I can get up this guy just said, "look buddy, I'm the Denver Police and you're not getting up here!" and stormed off. so when it came time to move along(he was doing traffic control and I was in traffic) when I get next to him, I stopped with my window rolled down, looked him square in the eye and yelled, "FAG!". Juvenile I know, but it made me feel better, and oh boy you should have seen the red on his face and the smirks on his fellow officers.

the guy at the next entrance let me up no problem. haha.

Originally Posted by RoamingGnome

I seriously hope this goddamned dickhead is fired w/o pension. This is blatant power abuse which frankly, should be punishable by a jail term [User Posted Image]

yeah I really think there should be some harsh penalties for cops like that, at LEAST a year in jail for abuse of power, maybe that'll help curb some of it. Some people are good cops just having a bad day, so maybe the chances that they'll do something that will land them in jail will help them call in on those bad days.

[epp_b]

My father was a Sgt. an Investigator, Interrogator, Chief Negotiator, and Polygraph Artist. Now that he is retired he does pre-employment polygraphs for smaller police stations around the state. I sat in on a few as an observer of these and found it interesting how he could get these guys to confess to stealing, drug use, visiting prostitutes, homosexuality, wearing womens underwear, violent behavior, and in one case that he wanted to use the badge to be powerful.
i
This guy to local department seemed like a good fit, but after an hour with my father he admitted that his experience with another department was in fact as a crossing guard for children. After having him stop crying and leave with a little dignity, my father said to me that that was perfect example someone who would be a pig of a cop. Some people get picked on when they are kids and then take it out on everyone the rest of their lives, and if he was to be hired he would be a liability to getting people shot.

Most police are generally nice people its only that they have to deal with shitty people all day that makes them worried that you will be shit to them from the start.

Wow, it sounds like this planet could use more people like your dad!

[tigger]

Originally Posted by zenkidori

you handled that pretty well, I'm lucky enough to not really have dealt with dick police officers(I have, but not often) but security guards always get me, and I never just let that shit slide. I'm always making sarcastic comments and generally being a dick, because I know they have no real power.

Haha I worked security for Kansas State football and basketball last season. I hated it with a passion, not only because of assholes such as yourself who know we have no real authority , but also because I've got my own authority issues. For instance; stadium food is always overpriced, and of course you're not supposed to bring any in. Screw that, unless someone was trying to get a 5lb bag of peanuts in I let them through.

My friend (hell, all 5-6 of us) were ready to lay into that cop for pointlessly being a prick, but he hopped back in his car before we could get much out. However, once when I was being fingerprinted I told the (male) officer who was rolling my finger in the ink, that "I'd never been touched like this by another man before." The other officers thought that was pretty damned hilarious.

[zenkidori]

lol. a friend of mine once saved himself from a weed ticket because he started going "mmmmmm" when the cop frisked him. he stopped and told him to "get the hell outta here".

[epp_b]

[tigger]

Originally Posted by zenkidori

lol. a friend of mine once saved himself from a weed ticket because he started going "mmmmmm" when the cop frisked him. he stopped and told him to "get the hell outta here".

Originally Posted by epp_b

Ditto, I'm going to remember to do that if I get patted down again.