So Wrong, So Often, For So Long, Yet It's Europe We Want To Copy.

[teeb]

Originally Posted by Polly

Thanks for the recap. I just can't be arsed to read and take a text about cultural differencies seriously that starts with a metaphor involving the game of golf.

It seems odd that an article involving how America shouldn't take European ideas begins with a metaphor involving a European invention that seems to work quite well in America.

Originally Posted by jetsetter

Perhaps I over did it with the century comment, it's more like 50 years.

Nope, it was your use of the word 'liberal' in an insulting context in this sentence :

Originally Posted by jetseter

What replaced it was essentially a garbage liberal wasteland powerless to act with any decisiveness.

As for the article, it makes some good points and ignores some points for the sake of the argument. However, I have to admit to not understanding this bit :

The American minimum wage laws do enough damage without our imitating European minimum wage laws. The last year in which the black unemployment rate was lower than the white unemployment rate in the U.S. was 1930. The next year, the first federal minimum wage law, the Davis-Bacon Act, was passed. One of its sponsors explicitly stated that the purpose was to keep blacks from taking jobs from whites.

No one says things like that any more — which is a shame, because the effect of a minimum wage law does not depend on what anybody says. Blacks in general, and younger blacks in particular, are the biggest losers from such laws, just as younger and minority workers are in Europe.

What is the link between a minimum wage and minority (youths, religious, skin colour) employment?

One of the reasons that the minimum wage laws exist is to make sure the young and the minorities aren't being exploited and being paid peanuts...

[Scott]

It is an editorial folks... which makes it no more credible than a 7 year old discussing quantum physics.

The guy is writing from a totally biased viewpoint, which is what you are supposed to do in an editorial, but if anyone is taking it as a "legit" news piece or anything than you are just messed up.

I personally think that some of our leaders in the USA have looked to Europe for inspiration or ways to look productive as a means of getting re-elected, but in the long term the USA should always go their own direction. At the same we should try to remain in harmony with those who want to and if the countries who don't like our path but refuse to sit down and try to see WHY we do things the way we do, well they can just piss off.

[prizrak]

US should look to Germany or better yet the Isle of Man for inspiration on speed limits

[Suedschleife]

Funny and there was me thinking many it was trendy for European governments to emulate the US, from "security" to "intellectual property" laws.

[BlaRo]

Lilleput and jetsetter here demonstrate the two biggest stereotypes of any America vs. Europe thread: the European sophisticate bashes the American redneck, who by defending his country without resorting to jingoism (LAWL THE WAR IN IRAK WAS AWs0ME KILL THE TOWELHEDZ) is painted as a retarded, ignorant hick. And that's exactly what the article is trying to address.

Lilleput, it's a shame you didn't actually bother reading it, because it's playing off the same stereotypes you're painting jetsetter with. At the same time, jetsetter made it too easy with that fucking blitheringly retarded comment "godless liberal wasteland", however. And just to play devil's advocate:

liberal ≠ bad!

Quit listening to Bill "Fuck it, I'm doin' it live" O'Reilly and understand that European politics aren't as cracked up to be, just as American lifestyles wouldn't work over there. Nobody should emulate nobody, unless what they're copying actually works.

[katwalk]

so if America is so great why do european countries have a hight standard of living?
I know for a fact the UK passed us for the first time in like a hundred years recently and I know that minimum wage isn't enough to keep you off the streets.
Considering I have asked european friends about their specific countries debating moving to europe i'd say yeah, america SHOULD be like europe in some ways.
Some things are better in america but some things are worse.

[TomCat]

Well, I actually read the article. Please, contain your shock, it's not that difficult, give it a shot sometime. And I thought the message was pretty obvious. Trying to be like Europe just for the sake of being like Europe, is not a good idea. Just because something sounds good, doesn't mean it is good. And statistics, well, statistics are bullshit.

There wasn't anything in there that stated all European ideas were bad. It was just pointing out that European countries have made their fair share of mistakes too, so trying to be like Europe just because you think Europe is more sophisticated and progressive, is idiotic. Good ideas are good ideas, no matter where they came from. You should look at the idea and not it's continent of origin. And it may also be a good idea to take a serious look into the other places that may have used that idea and the pro's and con's that came out of it.

[thedguy]

I can sum the entire article up in a statement of my own opinion:

Nothing pisses me off more in a discussion than "The way they do it in Europe..."

[H0nzik]

Originally Posted by teeb

What is the link between a minimum wage and minority (youths, religious, skin colour) employment?

One of the reasons that the minimum wage laws exist is to make sure the young and the minorities aren't being exploited and being paid peanuts...

Well the thing is that if the employers are unable to pay the unqualified workers less that the minimum wage, they can only afford to emloy less of them and the rest will be unemployed.

[Hidden_Hunter]

Originally Posted by Lilleput

I'll never say Europe is worse than America, Asia or what ever just like any American won't do the same, it's pointless. I was just pointing out how retarded that article was.

Well it gives us Aussie's the ability to claim something

and yes that article is bullshit but did anyone really take it that seriously, just as bullshit as it would be if it had come from any other country tooting their own horn.

Remember kiddies

Countries have their strengths and weaknesses

[Lilleput]

Originally Posted by BlaRo

Lilleput and jetsetter here demonstrate the two biggest stereotypes of any America vs. Europe thread

When did i call anyone a redneck? When did i do any of the stuff you claim? Actually what thread where you reading?

I was saying the text was irrelevant and anyone who's defending it would be a moron, at no point did i give in to the bull baiting and start listing America's faults. Jetsetter's the one who where calling Europeans names, don't include me in that company when i did nothing.

[WillDAQ]

Originally Posted by thedguy

Nothing pisses me off more in a discussion than "The way they do it in Europe..."

The thing that most fundamentally pisses me off in the article is the way Europe is treated as a single nation. To be honest I really wouldn't recommend any country tries to 'be like Europe' as one Europe is more than enough for this world.

The problem is that there are a number of elitist politicians who like the idea of one big federal Europe.

For some it's because they think that in the process of amalgamation they can get a foot up on the world stage, certainly for many eastern states Europe = more money and influence. Spain has got a free national road network out of the European slush fund (ie UK, French and German tax payers) because they're poorer than their neighbours.

Others see it as a way to subdue powerful neighbours. For example the phrase 'perusing a European defence policy' essentially means handing over your armed forces to someone in Brussels who will never use them for anything. For the likes of Germany this is good, because they don't really use their armed forces for much so it saves money.. but these nations then try to pressurise France and the UK to give up their military freedom as well.

There is also (of course) some good old fashioned unification going on. Very few actual citizens in Europe like the idea of a federal Europe, but that's not going to stop the European Parliament. If you don't have a referendum they can't tell you no.


Yeah, all in all Europe is a bad idea... don't try to copy it!

[airmenair]

I once heard a lady on FOX news say in regards to the oil prices that, and I quote, "We should tax it (gas) to the high hills because that's what Europe does."

I think that is appropriate for this thread.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally Posted by Lilleput

When did i call anyone a redneck? When did i do any of the stuff you claim? Actually what thread where you reading?

Maybe you should take that as a hint that nobody really bothers to read your posts anymore.

[Lilleput]

Originally Posted by BerserkerCatSplat

Maybe you should take that as a hint that nobody really bothers to read your posts anymore.

Just because you're mad at someone on the interwebs doesn't mean that's how everyone feels.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally Posted by Lilleput

Just because you're mad at someone on the interwebs doesn't mean that's how everyone feels.

I wasn't the person you accused of not reading your post, was I? I'd say the evidence speaks for itself.

[TomCat]

Originally Posted by Lilleput

I was saying the text was irrelevant and anyone who's defending it would be a moron,

You didn't read the text. So your opinion is irrelevant.

Try reading it without taking it so personally, as you already did, and you'll realize that it doesn't say anything about all European ideas being bad and all American ideas being good. All your posts on this thread are based on your own clueless overreaction to an article that you didn't bother reading.

[Lilleput]

Originally Posted by TomCat

You didn't read the text. So your opinion is irrelevant.

Try reading it without taking it so personally, as you already did, and you'll realize that it doesn't say anything about all European ideas being bad and all American ideas being good. All your posts on this thread are based on your own clueless overreaction to an article that you didn't bother reading.

I read it, and at no point did i overreact, i just said it was a un-documented rant and not much else.

Try reading it without taking it so personally

How did i take this personally? And never took the text serious because it's not relevant, the only thing i took personally was when someone started throwing around clichés about Europe.

you'll realize that it doesn't say anything about all European ideas being bad and all American ideas being good.

I never said it did, all i said it's incredibly bias.