So Wrong, So Often, For So Long, Yet It's Europe We Want To Copy.

[Cobol74]

There not one chance in a hundred billion that any European ideas will be implemented in the US. It is far more likely that US ideas will come the other way especially to the UK - we love US ideas. ... Well usually.

Listen very carefully I will say this only once "Europe is not a country, is not now, will not be in the near future, it never ever will be."

[jetsetter]

Originally Posted by BlaRo

liberal ≠ bad!

That is not my opinion, I have several beliefs that would be considered "liberal". What I think it that there needs to be a balance. In the United States Congress and the Presidency should not be controlled by the same party, things always turn out better when the parties are different.

And I am not religious at all. I am pro choice, pro stem cell research, and pro gay marriage among many other others.

[jayhawk]

Originally Posted by Lilleput

And come on! You're a educated guy, you only posted this to boil our piss didn't you?

In a sense, Yes. Since I am no wordsmith, I found an article that gives Europeans something to ponder about in regards to their history. I liken it to the adage of "turning the tables".

Though this forum is pretty mild, there is another forum I frequent that has a pathological hatred for Americans and America, with a lot of Americans agreeing with said sentiment. I mean, it one thing to be critical of your country and it's policies, it is quite another to read posts from Americans forever apologizing and in the same breath, wishing they could leave.

Speaking of that, I really find it funny when I hear an American moaning about wanting to leave the country; well, go! It is the real world equivalent of the "goodbye, everybody" threads you see know and then.

Originally Posted by Cobal74

Listen very carefully I will say this only once "Europe is not a country, is not now, will not be in the near future, it never ever will be."

I really beg to differ; little laws will be quietly pushed through, and one day....BAM! The United States Of Europe. There is no little worlds anymore; two world wars, the spread of communism, global corporations and the European Union changed everything.
And that is sad, because with globalization, nationalism starts to rear it's ugly head, and history will more than likely repeat itself, manifesting with civil wars across Europe. For the love of God, I really hope I am wrong, I really do. On the other hand, for nine people who say the EU is good, there is the one person who will vehemently disagree.

And it only took the personality and leadership of a few people to change Europe forever last century.

[Cobol74]

Its OK we got our Irish mates to stop the buggers. They have taken the money and now when its their turn to pay - up yours Jacque Delores. ... Good on them I say, a country that knows how to play the Europe game and win.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/alex_si..._help_the_city

[TomCat]

Originally Posted by Lilleput

I read it,

Oh, next time don't bracket your whole first post in [TLDR][/TLDR].

Originally Posted by Lilleput

and at no point did i overreact, i just said it was a un-documented rant and not much else.

How did i take this personally? And never took the text serious because it's not relevant, the only thing i took personally was when someone started throwing around clichés about Europe.

I never said it did, all i said it's incredibly bias.

The main thing about that article that you need to understand is that it wasn't written for Europeans. Or Asians. Or Australians. Or anyone else, just Americans. Because here in a America there are a lot people who think everything is superior in Europe and everything in America sucks. They throw around statistics like they're the word of God, without understanding the dynamics of them. Etcetera. The article was simply addressing the fact that not everything is great in European countries and not everything is terrible in America. That's it. You only see bias and irrelevance because it wasn't glorifying Europe. You're showing your own bias there.

[Lilleput]

Originally Posted by TomCat

Oh, next time don't bracket your whole first post in [TLDR][/TLDR].

I read it and gave a TLDR to the ones who couldn't be bothered, which i wrote!

[TomCat]

Originally Posted by Lilleput

I read it and gave a TLDR to the ones who couldn't be bothered, which i wrote!

Which was a complete crock. If you want to write a summary, write a summary. Marking it as [TLDR] gives the impression that you didn't read it, but are giving a summary anyway. It also doesn't help that the entire content of the post is childish gibberish. The fact that you completely misunderstood the article, got personally offended, but feel you have the authority to summarize the article in the most asinine way possible for those who see a half page article as a "wall of text" thats not worth their time, yet still view the thread and read the posts, is equally idiotic.

You first post is 10 times more biased and irrelevant then the original text. And anyone who's defending it would be a moron.

[swek]

^^ Satisfied now jayhawk? There's your flamewar.

Those threads....

[Lilleput]

Originally Posted by TomCat

Which was a complete crock. If you want to write a summary, write a summary. Marking it as [TLDR] gives the impression that you didn't read it, but are giving a summary anyway. It also doesn't help that the entire content of the post is childish gibberish. The fact that you completely misunderstood the article, got personally offended, but feel you have the authority to summarize the article in the most asinine way possible for those who see a half page article as a "wall of text" thats not worth their time, yet still view the thread and read the posts, is equally idiotic.

You first post is 10 times more biased and irrelevant then the original text. And anyone who's defending it would be a moron.

Please stop saying i got personally offended, you have no idea. Generally speaking Europeans are a lot less patriotic and protective of their countries than Americans are.

And just based on the +rep i got there are plenty of people that agree.

Okay! that's it, im out of this thread, all it gets me are angry Americans in my neck.

[Twerp128]

It's like those damn yuppies putting roundabouts in parking lots! A roundabout with a stop sign is like a double negative. You just need one or the other. Gottdam yuppies, if you want to live in England you better start eating fish out of a newspaper and stop brushing your teeth.

[chaos386]

Originally Posted by jayhawk

Interesting article! If you are European, I hope that it offends you, as that will lead to critical thought.

Originally Posted by TomCat

Which was a complete crock. If you want to write a summary, write a summary. Marking it as [TLDR] gives the impression that you didn't read it, but are giving a summary anyway. It also doesn't help that the entire content of the post is childish gibberish. The fact that you completely misunderstood the article, got personally offended, but feel you have the authority to summarize the article in the most asinine way possible for those who see a half page article as a "wall of text" thats not worth their time, yet still view the thread and read the posts, is equally idiotic.

You first post is 10 times more biased and irrelevant then the original text. And anyone who's defending it would be a moron.

Well, it certainly *is* critical...

[TomCat]

Originally Posted by swek

^^ Satisfied now jayhawk? There's your flamewar.

Those threads....

What flame war? It's just a personal disagreement over semantics, nothing more.

Originally Posted by Lilleput

Please stop saying i got personally offended, you have no idea.

I'm just going off your first post:

Originally Posted by Lilleput

Some Americans have looked to Europe for ways to solve their problems, but Europe sucks! And if Amerikuh starts doing it the European way everyone will lose their jobs and die. In short: America fuck.. Yeah?
It then goes on to list a bunch of things that makes America fucking awesome and right after that lists a bunch of things that makes Europe fucking awful.

Europe < Amerikuh!!!!!!

You don't exactly sound level headed and composed. It sounds like you're ranting in a shrill voice. It also doesn't help that you seemed to miss the point of the article and came up with stuff like "Europe sucks!" "Europe (is) fucking awful" and "Europe < Amerikuh!", which isn't present anywhere in the article. So you'll just have to forgive me for getting the wrong impression.

[MacGuffin]

Instead of replying for myself, let me quote what American journalist Paul Krugman wrote in the New York Times not so long ago:

Today I’d like to talk about a much-derided contender making a surprising comeback, a comeback that calls into question much of the conventional wisdom of American politics. No, I’m not talking about a politician. I’m talking about an economy -- specifically, the European economy, which many Americans assume is tired and spent but has lately been showing surprising vitality.

Why should Americans care about Europe’s economy? Well, for one thing, it’s big. The G.D.P. of the European Union is roughly comparable to that of the United States; the euro is almost as important a global currency as the dollar; and the governance of the world financial system is, for practical purposes, equally shared by the European Central Bank and the Federal Reserve.

But there’s another thing: it’s important to get the facts about Europe’s economy right because the alleged woes of that economy play an important role in American political discourse, usually as an excuse for the insecurities and injustices of our own society.

For example, does Hillary Clinton have a plan to cover the millions of Americans who lack health insurance? “She takes her inspiration from European bureaucracies,” sneers Mitt Romney.

Or are top US executives grossly overpaid? According to a Times report, Michael Jensen, a professor emeritus at Harvard’s Graduate School of Business whose theories helped pave the way for gigantic paychecks, considers executive excess “an acceptable price to pay for an American economy that he believes has outstripped Japan and Europe in growth and prosperity.”

In fact, however, tales of a moribund Europe are greatly exaggerated.

It’s true that Europe has had a lot of economic troubles over the past generation. In the mid-1970s the Continent entered a prolonged era of sluggish job creation, which contrasted with vigorous employment growth in the United States.

And in the 1990s, Europe lagged behind America in the adoption of new technology. For example, in 1997 fewer than 15 percent of French homes contained personal computers and fewer than 1 percent were connected to the Internet.

But that was then.

Since 2000, employment has actually grown a bit faster in Europe than in the United States -- and since Europe has a lower rate of population growth, this has translated into a substantial rise in the percentage of working-age Europeans with jobs, even as America’s employment-population ratio has declined.

In particular, in the prime working years, from 25 to 54, the big gap between European and US employment rates that existed a decade ago has been largely eliminated. If you think Europe is a place where lots of able-bodied adults just sit at home collecting welfare checks, think again.

Meanwhile, Europe’s Internet lag is a thing of the past. The dial-up Internet of the 1990s was dominated by the United States. But as dial-up has given way to broadband, Europe has more than kept up. The number of broadband connections per 100 people in the 15 countries that were members of the European Union before it was enlarged in 2004, is slightly higher than in the US -- and Europe’s connections are both substantially faster and substantially cheaper than ours.

I don’t want to exaggerate the good news. Europe continues to have many economic problems. But who doesn’t? The fact is that Europe’s economy looks a lot better now -- both in absolute terms and compared with our economy -- than it did a decade ago.

What’s behind Europe’s comeback? It’s a complicated story, probably involving a combination of deregulation (which has expanded job opportunities) and smart regulation. One of the keys to Europe’s broadband success is that unlike US regulators, many European governments have promoted competition, preventing phone and cable companies from monopolizing broadband access.

What European countries definitely haven’t done is dismantle their strong social safety nets. Universal health care is a given. So are a variety of programs that support families in trouble, helping protect Europeans from the extreme poverty all too common in this country. All of this costs money -- even though European countries spend far less on health care than we do -- and European taxes are very high by US standards.

In short, Europe continues to be a big-government sort of place. And that’s why it’s important to get the real story of the European economy out there.

According to the anti-government ideology that dominates much US political discussion, low taxes and a weak social safety net are essential to prosperity. Try to make the lives of Americans even slightly more secure, we’re told, and the economy will shrivel up -- the same way it supposedly has in Europe.

But the next time a politician tries to scare you with the European bogeyman, bear this in mind: Europe’s economy is actually doing O.K. these days, despite a level of taxing and spending beyond the wildest ambitions of American progressives.

Source: http://www.spiegel.de/international/...528002,00.html