The Free Tibet Thread

[Donington]

Tibet wasn't exactly paradise on earth before was it? But it can't keep going the way things are. unless someone lets in a wind...of change.

*walks away wistfully with that song in the background*

+ YouTube Video

[jayhawk]

I do find it funny that the people who are for freeing Tibet now had no qualms that the USSR was wiping out other countries culture, freedom, religion and people.

Seriously, the USSR was no better than nazi Germany. Look into it.

[Donington]

Originally Posted by jayhawk

Seriously, the USSR was no better than nazi Germany.

At the very least Stalin's regime was as bad a Hitler's.

During the Purges 2 million were killed. He also engineered the genocide of the Ukrainians. Some estimate the deaths of up to 25% of the population.
There are some estimates of the deaths of 30 million.

By numbers, Stalin was responible for more deaths than Hitler. It's just he didn't care about their ethnicity. Yet here, he is still considered a hero by a fair number of the population for defeating Hitler, but in Europe it was just one opressive regime taking over another.

Then there's Mao...

[jayhawk]

Don't get me started on Mao...tears of anger will well up in my eyes for the injustices to humanity that man had done.

[vikiradTG2007]

Originally Posted by jayhawk

I do find it funny that the people who are for freeing Tibet now had no qualms that the USSR was wiping out other countries culture, freedom, religion and people.

Seriously, the USSR was no better than nazi Germany. Look into it.

Stalin was a more vicious dictator than Hitler. Mr. Tiny Moustache had massive anger, but directed in a certain direction (in a very very wrong way, which led to millions getting slaughtered in the camps of death), while Mr. Big Moustache Djugashvilli (which was Stalin's real name) sent many more people to their deaths for absolutely no reason; when you were even hinting at saying, doing or even thinking about contesting something, anything, even common stuff, then you got busted and shipped to Siberia.

Plus he threw Eastern Europe single-handedly back into the Dark Ages and his continued influence, even after his death, held them there until 1989. I should know, because I live in a former Communist country. And let me tell you, once the Communist mentality roots itself in people's minds, you can't get it out of there any longer.

And I don't remember anyone protesting for the freedom of the former Soviet republics.

[/rant]

[British_Rover]

Originally Posted by jayhawk

Don't get me started on Mao...tears of anger will well up in my eyes for the injustices to humanity that man had done.

Cultural Revolution..

[Koenig]

Originally Posted by jayhawk

Don't get me started on Mao...tears of anger will well up in my eyes for the injustices to humanity that man had done.

Wow, what did Mao ever do to you? My grandparents suffered through that time, but you don't see me crying about it.

[bartboy9891]

Originally Posted by Koenig

Wow, what did Mao ever do to you? My grandparents suffered through that time, but you don't see me crying about it.

You don't have to personally experience something to have strong feelings about it. Mao was responsible for the death of millions of people. It's hard to wrap your head around just how many people that is, even one unjust death is pretty disgusting to me.

[Donington]

Originally Posted by Koenig

Wow, what did Mao ever do to you?

Did Hitler refuse your facebook request then?

Were you Rick Rolled by the Stasi?

Under the orders of Stalin did the KGB play some light piano music while simultaniously taking part in a horrendous dirt protest in your kitchen?

I'm guessing not. How can you only care about what people have done if they've done it to you personally?

[BlaRo]

Originally Posted by jayhawk

Don't get me started on Mao...tears of anger will well up in my eyes for the injustices to humanity that man had done.

Better not talk to my parents then - both my grandfather and grandmother were denounced during the Cultural Revolution and died from stress after they were outcasted from their jobs and homes by the Red Guard. My father and uncle were forced to abandon their studies and move south to work in the farms (although after Mao's death in 1976 they were among the few to go onto college educations).

Funny though...my entire family bears no outward resentment to the regime, even though they all acknowledge how terrible of a time it was.

[jayhawk]

Well, revoke my dramatic license.

[Koenig]

Originally Posted by Donington

Did Hitler refuse your facebook request then?

Were you Rick Rolled by the Stasi?

Under the orders of Stalin did the KGB play some light piano music while simultaniously taking part in a horrendous dirt protest in your kitchen?

I'm guessing not. How can you only care about what people have done if they've done it to you personally?

But that's exactly it. I DON'T care about all that because it didn't affect me directly. Why should I? Call me selfish/shallow/or whatever, but that's just how I am. Do I care about the Jews because the Nazi regime killed millions of them? Not likely. Do I feel somewhat sorry for them? Sure. But you don't see me outwardly voicing my displeasure at Hitler. History is exactly that: history. My ancestors were caught in the middle of what the Japanese were doing to the Chinese doing WW2, but you don't see me going and punching a Japanese person in the face. In fact, I have several Japanese friends and frequently go out to eat sushi. Furthermore, most Chinese really don't care about what Mao or the Japanese did. You can see this from how many chinese people drive Japanese cars, and I'm being 100% serious with my last point.

[hansvonaxion]

Originally Posted by vikiradTG2007

And I don't remember anyone protesting for the freedom of the former Soviet republics.

[/rant]

Maybe you don't remember because you are 16 and weren't alive then?

Seriously, this thread is out of control.

The arguments I've heard have been;

Sick of looking at "Free Tibet" stickers
Don't like the look of the protesters
Too many protesters/too much focus
Protesters are ignorant

I don't think these arguments need any refutation, although I will say that I wish the media would spend more time on other deserving topics, but hey its the media.

Then there's;

Tibet has always been a part of China

Well, Iraq never recognised Kuwait, Kuwait was trying to destroy Iraq and the US basically gave permission for Iraq to invade. Yet somehow we went to war to fight for the enduring freedom of the Kuwaiti and then Iraqi people.

East Timor was once part of Indonesia, yet Australia sent troops there to protect them while they held a referendum to vote for their independence.

Tibet has its own culture, language, religion and did have their own "Government". They're pretty strong indicators that their desire for independence, their movement for secession, should be given a fair hearing.

And then for some reason, people started talking about;

Hitler and the Nazi's

Well, considering that this thread got revived due to the Olympics, There was a lot of talk about an Olympic boycott when the Nazi party were in power.

Stalin and Russia

Again, there was a boycott of the Moscow Olympics.

And since when does a country/Gov/leader have to be the worst human rights violator or massacre the largest number of people in history in order for people to question their human rights record?

I'm just asking people to look past the disproportionate amount of media attention that Tibet receives, their prejudice against hippies and see the issue for what it is. As much as you guys are right in claiming that its "cool" to love Tibet at the moment, you seem to be oblivious to the fact that there's an equal and opposite effect, and you're part of it.

[bartboy9891]

Originally Posted by BlaRo

Funny though...my entire family bears no outward resentment to the regime, even though they all acknowledge how terrible of a time it was.

Really? I would assume that people that experienced it would resent it a lot more than any outsider could.

[BlaRo]

Originally Posted by bartboy9891

Really? I would assume that people that experienced it would resent it a lot more than any outsider could.

Like Koenig said (in more controversial terms), it's history, it's in the past. They're not going to waste any time fretting about it. My parents have moved on since then, they've come to America and built up a completely different life that's exactly the opposite of the Red Guard's values. That, in essence, is the greatest form of revenge.