The new EU constitution

Roland · February 20th, 2005, 09:40 PM

This day the ppl of Spain made a sad choice: they voted for the new EU constitution in todays referendum. But i can't blame THEM, i can't blame THEM for being decieved, devived by their socialistic government. They have delibreatly darkened issues which ppl have the right to know. This constitution has hundreds and hundreds of points which quite frankly are horrible. Among them are:

- reinforceing socialistic values in a constutution
- reinforceing protectionsitic ideas (tarriffs, subventions etc) in a constitution
- an expantion of authority for EU

Sure the new constitution contains a lot of good things aswell, but that does not mean we can accept it. What we need is not a EU which goes into our countries to rule in detail. We do not need a EU which pours hundreds of tons of french wine (damn french, by the way images/smilies/wink.gif

) into the ocean every year, just so an overflow of french wine producers don't lose their job. What we need is a EU which enforces the principles which the whole union is founded upon: free flow of money, goods, jobs, and ppl.

PLEASE, I beg u Europeans on the board, vote in a possible referendum and vote NO for this sick new constitution.

CanadianLoonie · February 20th, 2005, 09:48 PM

And isn't Sweden another socialist European country as well?

But I agree, continental Europe is overly too socialistic and in the long run will suffer from it more than Canada and the US.

Roland · February 20th, 2005, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanadianLoonie

And isn't Sweden another socialist European country as well?

But I agree, continental Europe is overly too socialistic and in the long run will suffer from it more than Canada and the US.

Yes we are images/smilies/cry.gif

But i hope all that will change in the fall of 2006 when our next elecition is. The social democrats have been getting A LOT of shit these last years and their popularity has fallen images/smilies/thumbsup.gif

ruuman · February 21st, 2005, 12:00 AM

no worries I will be voting a big fat NO along with just about everyone I know if it comes down to a referendum.

The problem the current government was just going to sign us Brits up without answering, luckily there was a massive outcry. So we should get a vote.

joemoefro · February 21st, 2005, 05:57 AM

I hope you guys get it together though! Like, agree to a decent constitution. I mean, the Euro is pretty cool. I don't know if being more burracratic is that good, but i'm not sure, do you guys think the EU is a good idea?

ruuman · February 21st, 2005, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joemoefro

I hope you guys get it together though! Like, agree to a decent constitution. I mean, the Euro is pretty cool. I don't know if being more burracratic is that good, but i'm not sure, do you guys think the EU is a good idea?

Thats the problem, the EU was originally was really only designed to to strengthen trade links and create better relations between it's member.

Now it's a such a massive superstate speaking multiple languages with many different cultures being ruled over by people in Brussels who don't always seem to see the whole picture in my opinion.

On paper the idea is great, single strong currency, good trade and poorer members having to contribute less so that every country has a good standard of living are some of the benifits.

Only problem it doesn't work like that images/smilies/sad.gif

and the EU constitution has some worrying points (must admit haven't read the latest version) that to me make the patriot act look like a reasonable set of legislation.

Ultra_Kool_Dude · February 21st, 2005, 09:01 AM

Why is the power of the EU in Brussels?

ruuman · February 21st, 2005, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultra_Kool_Dude

Why is the power of the EU in Brussels?

Just because the EU parliment building is there, so that where all the delegates from each country meet. I don't know exactly why it's in brussels though. I'm sure sure one of the other Euro's on the board can answer that one.
To be honest it's much the same feeling about the British parliment being based in London and not having a clue what goes on outside. Like the recent ban on hunting they bought in. It's effected a lot of people in the countryside, but they just don't seem to care.

joemoefro · February 22nd, 2005, 05:11 AM

Well i've heard, that the Belgian's are a very compromising people. There is such thing of a "Belgian Compromise" where they solve complex problems peacefully. And Brussels is a really cool town anyway, i dunno why its there.

I mean, why is the UN in America? actually, I think it should be elsewhere because we're kinda nuts.

CanadianLoonie · February 22nd, 2005, 06:02 AM

Brussels is pretty much in the geographical centre of the European continent.

jensked · March 31st, 2005, 10:40 PM

Ok, here we go

Firstly, Belgium has always been in the center of Europe (ok, quite logical). Since the Belgian independance in 1830, the Belgian King was 'the fireman of Europe'. His country was situated in the middle, between the 'superpowers' and he had good relations with all courts. (Leopold of Belgium was born in Germany, fought in Hungary, was married to a French and Englisch women).

Secondly, Belgium always had other people commanding it: we had to deal with the Dutch, French, Spanish, Germans and Austrians...so we always had to adapt.

Third: Marx wrote his Communist Manifest on the Grand Place in Brussels images/smilies/tongue.gif

Belgium also has a so called 'consensus democracy', whereas Britain always has a one-party government (easy decision making, easy governing,...), Belgium is one of the countries that always has to make a consensus, for it has proportional representation (difficult decision making, but Arendt Lijphard, the famous comparative political scienist, said this kind of democracy performs better).
Belgium also has three communities (Flemisch, Walloons and German Belgians), we have a history of consensus.

Also, after WWII, they couldn't make Germany the headquarters, for obvious reasons...
France could have been an option, but as usual the French probably made too much a fuzz about it images/smilies/wink.gif

(no offense, i LOVE France, j'aime la France vraiement)
That's why the NATO military HQ is in Bergen, Belgium, because France quit the military structure of the NATO in the sixties (general De Gaulle)

jensked · March 31st, 2005, 10:41 PM

By the way, excuse me for my bad English images/smilies/oops.gif

swek · March 31st, 2005, 10:44 PM

^ Erm, I can't find it. Where did you hide it ? images/smilies/lol.gif

jensked · March 31st, 2005, 10:49 PM

well, then I guess the OESO's correct.

The Belgian educational system is in the Top 5 images/smilies/thumbsup.gif

By the way, Brussels isn't the center of Europe anymore, after the enlargement...but of course the Belgian government has forseen that: they completely rebuild the EU Commission-building into a hightech building images/smilies/smile.gif

swek · March 31st, 2005, 10:52 PM

Yay, the German educational system is...well we have one. images/smilies/wink.gif

Didn't stop me from posting here though. images/smilies/lol.gif

On a sidenote. Thank you for the info about Bruxelles. I've always asked me why the EU parliament resides there.

swek · March 31st, 2005, 11:00 PM

No, I hate it. I mean 13€ per month for healthcare and 400€ per year for my University. It's hell, hell I tell you.

Wtf, how can Justin delete a post that has been answered ? Anyway, here we go:

Quote:

Originally Posted by justin syder

So I guess socialism isnt as great as you guys make it seem.

THREE CHEERS FOR SOCIALISM!!!

justin syder · March 31st, 2005, 11:37 PM

It was a bit out of context to the discussion. Anyway Im sure you love socialism.

So helpful that it has Germany in a 9% unemployment rate, 4% higher than the US. Where is economic growth in Germany?

Solving social issues one jobless person at a time i guess.

Kip_6666 · March 31st, 2005, 11:49 PM

Germany is probaly the least socialist country in europe though..

Firecat · March 31st, 2005, 11:56 PM

These western european nations aren't socialist, they are more like welfare states

swek · March 31st, 2005, 11:57 PM

Sure we have a hard time at the moment but this is mostly caused by our constitution. After WWII we decided that no political leader should have to much power again.
The result is that every political decision gets changed until everyone can live with it.
Most of the time only the name of the proposal remains.
Nonetheless, I'm interested in your solution. Should we adopt hardcore capitalism a la USA ? Sure, this might cause a few more homeless people but it's their fault in the first place, right ?

@Kip sssh, don't take away his illusions.

February 20th, 2005, 09:40 PM	#1
Roland Joined: Nov 9th, 2004 Last Online: January 9th, 2008 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Age: 21 Posts: 331 Rep Power: 0	The new EU constitution This day the ppl of Spain made a sad choice: they voted for the new EU constitution in todays referendum. But i can't blame THEM, i can't blame THEM for being decieved, devived by their socialistic government. They have delibreatly darkened issues which ppl have the right to know. This constitution has hundreds and hundreds of points which quite frankly are horrible. Among them are: - reinforceing socialistic values in a constutution - reinforceing protectionsitic ideas (tarriffs, subventions etc) in a constitution - an expantion of authority for EU Sure the new constitution contains a lot of good things aswell, but that does not mean we can accept it. What we need is not a EU which goes into our countries to rule in detail. We do not need a EU which pours hundreds of tons of french wine (damn french, by the way ) into the ocean every year, just so an overflow of french wine producers don't lose their job. What we need is a EU which enforces the principles which the whole union is founded upon: free flow of money, goods, jobs, and ppl. PLEASE, I beg u Europeans on the board, vote in a possible referendum and vote NO for this sick new constitution. __________________

February 20th, 2005, 09:48 PM	#2
CanadianLoonie Joined: Feb 16th, 2004 Last Online: November 25th, 2008 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Age: 24 Posts: 641 Car: 1993 Acura Integra RS sedan Rep Power: 20	And isn't Sweden another socialist European country as well? But I agree, continental Europe is overly too socialistic and in the long run will suffer from it more than Canada and the US. __________________ The Porsche 911 Turbo, the world's most civilized sports car.

February 21st, 2005, 09:01 AM	#7
Ultra_Kool_Dude AWESOME!!!111ONE Joined: Oct 4th, 2004 Last Online: November 24th, 2008 Location: Clarkson's House Posts: 3,684 Car: POWERR!!! Rep Power: 0	Why is the power of the EU in Brussels? __________________ What's the difference between charity and socialism? What's the difference between sex and rape?

February 22nd, 2005, 06:02 AM	#10
CanadianLoonie Joined: Feb 16th, 2004 Last Online: November 25th, 2008 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Age: 24 Posts: 641 Car: 1993 Acura Integra RS sedan Rep Power: 20	Brussels is pretty much in the geographical centre of the European continent. __________________ The Porsche 911 Turbo, the world's most civilized sports car.

March 31st, 2005, 10:40 PM	#11
jensked Joined: Mar 31st, 2005 Last Online: November 28th, 2008 Location: Flanders, Belgium Age: 25 Posts: 3,987 Car: RIP Opel Astra -> 2006 Toyota Corolla Wagon Rep Power: 40	Ok, here we go Firstly, Belgium has always been in the center of Europe (ok, quite logical). Since the Belgian independance in 1830, the Belgian King was 'the fireman of Europe'. His country was situated in the middle, between the 'superpowers' and he had good relations with all courts. (Leopold of Belgium was born in Germany, fought in Hungary, was married to a French and Englisch women). Secondly, Belgium always had other people commanding it: we had to deal with the Dutch, French, Spanish, Germans and Austrians...so we always had to adapt. Third: Marx wrote his Communist Manifest on the Grand Place in Brussels Belgium also has a so called 'consensus democracy', whereas Britain always has a one-party government (easy decision making, easy governing,...), Belgium is one of the countries that always has to make a consensus, for it has proportional representation (difficult decision making, but Arendt Lijphard, the famous comparative political scienist, said this kind of democracy performs better). Belgium also has three communities (Flemisch, Walloons and German Belgians), we have a history of consensus. Also, after WWII, they couldn't make Germany the headquarters, for obvious reasons... France could have been an option, but as usual the French probably made too much a fuzz about it (no offense, i LOVE France, j'aime la France vraiement) That's why the NATO military HQ is in Bergen, Belgium, because France quit the military structure of the NATO in the sixties (general De Gaulle) __________________

February 21st, 2005, 12:00 AM	#4
ruuman Joined: Sep 16th, 2004 Last Online: Yesterday Location: surrey, UK Age: 28 Posts: 620 Car: Range Rover, Defender 90, Suzuki DL-650 Rep Power: 18	no worries I will be voting a big fat NO along with just about everyone I know if it comes down to a referendum. The problem the current government was just going to sign us Brits up without answering, luckily there was a massive outcry. So we should get a vote.

February 21st, 2005, 05:57 AM	#5
joemoefro Joined: Dec 12th, 2004 Last Online: September 6th, 2007 Location: Palo Alto, CA USA Posts: 189 Rep Power: 17	I hope you guys get it together though! Like, agree to a decent constitution. I mean, the Euro is pretty cool. I don't know if being more burracratic is that good, but i'm not sure, do you guys think the EU is a good idea?

February 22nd, 2005, 05:11 AM	#9
joemoefro Joined: Dec 12th, 2004 Last Online: September 6th, 2007 Location: Palo Alto, CA USA Posts: 189 Rep Power: 17	Well i've heard, that the Belgian's are a very compromising people. There is such thing of a "Belgian Compromise" where they solve complex problems peacefully. And Brussels is a really cool town anyway, i dunno why its there. I mean, why is the UN in America? actually, I think it should be elsewhere because we're kinda nuts.

March 31st, 2005, 10:41 PM	#12
jensked Joined: Mar 31st, 2005 Last Online: November 28th, 2008 Location: Flanders, Belgium Age: 25 Posts: 3,987 Car: RIP Opel Astra -> 2006 Toyota Corolla Wagon Rep Power: 40	By the way, excuse me for my bad English

March 31st, 2005, 10:44 PM	#13
swek Global Moderator Joined: May 19th, 2004 Last Online: 04:22 PM Location: Hamburg, Germany Age: 26 Posts: 4,335 Car: Does a bicycle count? Rep Power: 45	^ Erm, I can't find it. Where did you hide it ?

March 31st, 2005, 10:49 PM	#14
jensked Joined: Mar 31st, 2005 Last Online: November 28th, 2008 Location: Flanders, Belgium Age: 25 Posts: 3,987 Car: RIP Opel Astra -> 2006 Toyota Corolla Wagon Rep Power: 40	well, then I guess the OESO's correct. The Belgian educational system is in the Top 5 By the way, Brussels isn't the center of Europe anymore, after the enlargement...but of course the Belgian government has forseen that: they completely rebuild the EU Commission-building into a hightech building __________________

March 31st, 2005, 10:52 PM	#15
swek Global Moderator Joined: May 19th, 2004 Last Online: 04:22 PM Location: Hamburg, Germany Age: 26 Posts: 4,335 Car: Does a bicycle count? Rep Power: 45	Yay, the German educational system is...well we have one. Didn't stop me from posting here though. On a sidenote. Thank you for the info about Bruxelles. I've always asked me why the EU parliament resides there.

March 31st, 2005, 11:37 PM	#17
justin syder Joined: Dec 8th, 2003 Last Online: October 29th, 2007 Location: New York, USA Age: 27 Posts: 4,087 Car: 1986 Mercedes-Benz 300E Rep Power: 25	It was a bit out of context to the discussion. Anyway Im sure you love socialism. So helpful that it has Germany in a 9% unemployment rate, 4% higher than the US. Where is economic growth in Germany? Solving social issues one jobless person at a time i guess. __________________ Top Gear list http://forum.finalgear.com/viewtopic.php?t=179 5th Gear list http://forum.finalgear.com/viewtopic.php?t=931 Ich Fahre Deutschen, Ich Fahre Mercedes-Benz.

March 31st, 2005, 11:49 PM	#18
Kip_6666 I Bought This Title :o Joined: May 17th, 2004 Last Online: 08:49 PM Location: The Netherlands Age: 22 Posts: 2,960 Car: Saab 93 2.0t @ stage 3 now Rep Power: 31	Germany is probaly the least socialist country in europe though.. __________________ http://www.internet-memes.com My Flickr

March 31st, 2005, 11:56 PM	#19
Firecat Politically Charged Joined: Mar 23rd, 2005 Last Online: 09:04 PM Posts: 3,610 Rep Power: 28	These western european nations aren't socialist, they are more like welfare states __________________

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March 31st, 2005, 11:57 PM	#20
swek Global Moderator Joined: May 19th, 2004 Last Online: 04:22 PM Location: Hamburg, Germany Age: 26 Posts: 4,335 Car: Does a bicycle count? Rep Power: 45	Sure we have a hard time at the moment but this is mostly caused by our constitution. After WWII we decided that no political leader should have to much power again. The result is that every political decision gets changed until everyone can live with it. Most of the time only the name of the proposal remains. Nonetheless, I'm interested in your solution. Should we adopt hardcore capitalism a la USA ? Sure, this might cause a few more homeless people but it's their fault in the first place, right ? @Kip sssh, don't take away his illusions.

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