FinalGear.com Forums  

Go Back   FinalGear.com Forums > General Discussion > Off-Topic > Political Discussion

Welcome to the FinalGear.com Forums!

Political Discussion KEEP IT CIVIL! This is not a place to flame each other's views, so please act mature in here just like you should everywhere else in this forum.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old July 26th, 2008, 12:01 AM   #1
Cigar Smoking Man
 
jayhawk's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 11th, 2005
Last Online: 7:53 PM
Location: Aurora, IL.
Age: 34
Posts: 6,323
Car: 07 Subaru WRX, 09 VW Tiguan.
Rep Power: 221
jayhawk has more bars, in more places.jayhawk has more bars, in more places.jayhawk has more bars, in more places.jayhawk has more bars, in more places.jayhawk has more bars, in more places.jayhawk has more bars, in more places.jayhawk has more bars, in more places.jayhawk has more bars, in more places.jayhawk has more bars, in more places.jayhawk has more bars, in more places.jayhawk has more bars, in more places.
Default What Bush and Batman have in common.

An op-ed piece from the Wall Street Journal. Please read objectively.

Quote:
A cry for help goes out from a city beleaguered by violence and fear: A beam of light flashed into the night sky, the dark symbol of a bat projected onto the surface of the racing clouds . . .

Oh, wait a minute. That's not a bat, actually. In fact, when you trace the outline with your finger, it looks kind of like . . . a "W."

There seems to me no question that the Batman film "The Dark Knight," currently breaking every box office record in history, is at some level a paean of praise to the fortitude and moral courage that has been shown by George W. Bush in this time of terror and war. Like W, Batman is vilified and despised for confronting terrorists in the only terms they understand. Like W, Batman sometimes has to push the boundaries of civil rights to deal with an emergency, certain that he will re-establish those boundaries when the emergency is past.

And like W, Batman understands that there is no moral equivalence between a free society -- in which people sometimes make the wrong choices -- and a criminal sect bent on destruction. The former must be cherished even in its moments of folly; the latter must be hounded to the gates of Hell.

"The Dark Knight," then, is a conservative movie about the war on terror. And like another such film, last year's "300," "The Dark Knight" is making a fortune depicting the values and necessities that the Bush administration cannot seem to articulate for beans.

Conversely, time after time, left-wing films about the war on terror -- films like "In The Valley of Elah," "Rendition" and "Redacted" -- which preach moral equivalence and advocate surrender, that disrespect the military and their mission, that seem unable to distinguish the difference between America and Islamo-fascism, have bombed more spectacularly than Operation Shock and Awe.

Why is it then that left-wingers feel free to make their films direct and realistic, whereas Hollywood conservatives have to put on a mask in order to speak what they know to be the truth? Why is it, indeed, that the conservative values that power our defense -- values like morality, faith, self-sacrifice and the nobility of fighting for the right -- only appear in fantasy or comic-inspired films like "300," "Lord of the Rings," "Narnia," "Spiderman 3" and now "The Dark Knight"?

The moment filmmakers take on the problem of Islamic terrorism in realistic films, suddenly those values vanish. The good guys become indistinguishable from the bad guys, and we end up denigrating the very heroes who defend us. Why should this be?

The answers to these questions seem to me to be embedded in the story of "The Dark Knight" itself: Doing what's right is hard, and speaking the truth is dangerous. Many have been abhorred for it, some killed, one crucified.

Leftists frequently complain that right-wing morality is simplistic. Morality is relative, they say; nuanced, complex. They're wrong, of course, even on their own terms.

Left and right, all Americans know that freedom is better than slavery, that love is better than hate, kindness better than cruelty, tolerance better than bigotry. We don't always know how we know these things, and yet mysteriously we know them nonetheless.

The true complexity arises when we must defend these values in a world that does not universally embrace them -- when we reach the place where we must be intolerant in order to defend tolerance, or unkind in order to defend kindness, or hateful in order to defend what we love.

When heroes arise who take those difficult duties on themselves, it is tempting for the rest of us to turn our backs on them, to vilify them in order to protect our own appearance of righteousness. We prosecute and execrate the violent soldier or the cruel interrogator in order to parade ourselves as paragons of the peaceful values they preserve. As Gary Oldman's Commissioner Gordon says of the hated and hunted Batman, "He has to run away -- because we have to chase him."

That's real moral complexity. And when our artistic community is ready to show that sometimes men must kill in order to preserve life; that sometimes they must violate their values in order to maintain those values; and that while movie stars may strut in the bright light of our adulation for pretending to be heroes, true heroes often must slink in the shadows, slump-shouldered and despised -- then and only then will we be able to pay President Bush his due and make good and true films about the war on terror.

Perhaps that's when Hollywood conservatives will be able to take off their masks and speak plainly in the light of day.

Mr. Klavan has won two Edgar Awards from the Mystery Writers of America. His new novel, "Empire of Lies" (An Otto Penzler Book, Harcourt), is about an ordinary man confronting the war on terror.
Source.
__________________
It is nice to have friends like you on this forum.

jayhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Want To Remove This Ad? Just Register For A FREE Account!
Old July 26th, 2008, 12:17 AM   #2
 
Labcoatguy's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 27th, 2005
Last Online: 9:53 PM
Location: Boston, MA
Age: 26
Posts: 4,222
Car: A Jaaaaaaaag.
Rep Power: 210
Labcoatguy has more bars, in more places.Labcoatguy has more bars, in more places.Labcoatguy has more bars, in more places.Labcoatguy has more bars, in more places.Labcoatguy has more bars, in more places.Labcoatguy has more bars, in more places.Labcoatguy has more bars, in more places.Labcoatguy has more bars, in more places.Labcoatguy has more bars, in more places.Labcoatguy has more bars, in more places.Labcoatguy has more bars, in more places.
Send a message via AIM to Labcoatguy Twitter
Default

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


Yet another proponent of Batman as a conservative icon (reposted from the Cool Videos thread)
Labcoatguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26th, 2008, 4:12 AM   #3
worships the 2010 Prius like a god
 
Momentum57's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 26th, 2005
Last Online: 11:31 PM
Location: Manlius Outside of Syracuse
Age: 25
Posts: 1,374
Car: Jaguar X-Type 3.0
Rep Power: 28
Momentum57 has between 650 and 999 reputationMomentum57 has between 650 and 999 reputationMomentum57 has between 650 and 999 reputationMomentum57 has between 650 and 999 reputationMomentum57 has between 650 and 999 reputationMomentum57 has between 650 and 999 reputationMomentum57 has between 650 and 999 reputationMomentum57 has between 650 and 999 reputation
Default

The most clearly stated opinion of the situation that we are in today. It is sad that it is extremely difficult to articulate. The truth will be seen if a Democrat takes office and makes these decisions for the nation. I don't think that right or left of our political spectrum find the war on terror any different, a necessity in the 21st century.

Pragmatically as a Conservative I look at the abortion topic: myself I hope that people would not need to make that choice but first hand I have had friends who did. Both of them decided that they were too young to get married but that they would stay raise their child together and complete college. It would have been easy to medically eradicate that life and finish college not talking to each other but they went the other way. I don't claim that it was the best thing to do only the right one for them. It has molded my view the subject that making abortion illegal would only lead to more death from poor surgical standards. More over it would place another burden on the state of responsibility over its citizens. Rather we should endeavor to make keeping our children the choice we make.

The war on terror like abortion is a necessary evil to prevent more death. As an American I wish that it was not our reality that we could ignore it but as a Conservative I understand it is our curse to have to deal with.
__________________
Momentum57 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old July 26th, 2008, 4:43 AM   #4
Politically Charged
 
Firecat's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 23rd, 2005
Last Online: November 5th, 2009
Posts: 4,432
Rep Power: 48
Firecat has a reputation beyond reputeFirecat has a reputation beyond reputeFirecat has a reputation beyond reputeFirecat has a reputation beyond reputeFirecat has a reputation beyond reputeFirecat has a reputation beyond reputeFirecat has a reputation beyond reputeFirecat has a reputation beyond reputeFirecat has a reputation beyond reputeFirecat has a reputation beyond reputeFirecat has a reputation beyond repute
Default

What a load of BS. I'm sure Batman would have supported the Iraq war...images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Why even have this discussion? It's asinine. And don't say to read it objectively when it's the biggest piece of partisan rubbish i've read in a long while.

And, if anything, Bush is more like The Joker than Batman, and that is evident by his whole "you are either with us or against us" mentality. (Among other things). We can sit here all day comparing politcal leaders to fictional characters, but it's not worth it.
__________________
Firecat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 27th, 2008, 6:38 PM   #5
 
tigger's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 11th, 2006
Last Online: November 4th, 2009
Location: Suburbia Hell
Posts: 3,201
Car: 1984 BMW 325e, 1996 Pontiac Bonneville
Rep Power: 73
tigger has a reputable reputation.tigger has a reputable reputation.tigger has a reputable reputation.tigger has a reputable reputation.tigger has a reputable reputation.tigger has a reputable reputation.tigger has a reputable reputation.tigger has a reputable reputation.tigger has a reputable reputation.tigger has a reputable reputation.tigger has a reputable reputation.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayhawk View Post
An op-ed piece from the Wall Street Journal. Please read objectively.
It's hard to read bullshit objectively. I tried, but damn ...
Quote:
Batman sometimes has to push the boundaries of civil rights to deal with an emergency, certain that he will re-establish those boundaries when the emergency is past.
images/smilies/lmao.gif Who the hell could write that with a straight face? Nevermind that he totally missed the point of the whole argument against the removal of personal freedoms in the name of "security".

It just goes on and on, that's the funniest thing I've read in a while Jay.
tigger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 27th, 2008, 7:32 PM   #6
 
Gatecrasher's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 21st, 2007
Last Online: August 18th, 2008
Location: USA
Age: 23
Posts: 158
Car: Vovlo 940
Rep Power: 13
Gatecrasher has between 250 and 349 reputationGatecrasher has between 250 and 349 reputationGatecrasher has between 250 and 349 reputation
Send a message via AIM to Gatecrasher
Default

..."one crucified."

Did he honestly put Batman, Jesus, and George W. Bush in the same boat? This is hilarious. images/smilies/biggrin.gif
__________________
Gatecrasher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 27th, 2008, 9:02 PM   #7
Cigar Smoking Man
 
jayhawk's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 11th, 2005
Last Online: 7:53 PM
Location: Aurora, IL.
Age: 34
Posts: 6,323
Car: 07 Subaru WRX, 09 VW Tiguan.
Rep Power: 221
jayhawk has more bars, in more places.jayhawk has more bars, in more places.jayhawk has more bars, in more places.jayhawk has more bars, in more places.jayhawk has more bars, in more places.jayhawk has more bars, in more places.jayhawk has more bars, in more places.jayhawk has more bars, in more places.jayhawk has more bars, in more places.jayhawk has more bars, in more places.jayhawk has more bars, in more places.
Default

Well, I wanted to see the reactions.
__________________
It is nice to have friends like you on this forum.

jayhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 27th, 2008, 9:28 PM   #8
Politically Charged
 
Firecat's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 23rd, 2005
Last Online: November 5th, 2009
Posts: 4,432
Rep Power: 48
Firecat has a reputation beyond reputeFirecat has a reputation beyond reputeFirecat has a reputation beyond reputeFirecat has a reputation beyond reputeFirecat has a reputation beyond reputeFirecat has a reputation beyond reputeFirecat has a reputation beyond reputeFirecat has a reputation beyond reputeFirecat has a reputation beyond reputeFirecat has a reputation beyond reputeFirecat has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayhawk View Post
Well, I wanted to see the reactions.
I read your post about 40 minutes after watching TDK for the second time. I was on such a high, so it really threw me. images/smilies/tongue.gif
__________________
Firecat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 27th, 2008, 9:37 PM   #9
 
Jacobfox's Avatar
 
Joined: May 24th, 2005
Last Online: 9:17 PM
Location: Sacramento, CA/Chicago, IL
Age: 20
Posts: 3,119
Car: Audi S6, Armada, F430, BMW M3
Rep Power: 64
Jacobfox has a reputable reputation.Jacobfox has a reputable reputation.Jacobfox has a reputable reputation.Jacobfox has a reputable reputation.Jacobfox has a reputable reputation.Jacobfox has a reputable reputation.Jacobfox has a reputable reputation.Jacobfox has a reputable reputation.Jacobfox has a reputable reputation.Jacobfox has a reputable reputation.Jacobfox has a reputable reputation.
Send a message via AIM to Jacobfox Xbox
Default

This is a fucking stupid article. It is just so christingly fucking stupid.
I'm actually rather surprised that that dreck managed to make it into the journal, most of the time their stuff isn't complete shit.
__________________
2007 Ferrari F430 (Rosso Rubino Micalizzato, Cuoio Interior, Carbon Upper Dash & wheel, Stradale Rims)

Jake- Priest of the Prancing Horse, Archbishop of the four rings.
Blaro, No Boss and Jacobfox- RickRolling since 1989.
Jacobfox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 28th, 2008, 12:23 PM   #10
Ik ben niet alleen lekker met kaas!
 
NooDle's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 20th, 2005
Last Online: 7:53 PM
Location: Belgium
Age: 28
Posts: 5,568
Car: Opel Astra 2.2 DTI
Rep Power: 95
NooDle has a reputable reputation.NooDle has a reputable reputation.NooDle has a reputable reputation.NooDle has a reputable reputation.NooDle has a reputable reputation.NooDle has a reputable reputation.NooDle has a reputable reputation.NooDle has a reputable reputation.NooDle has a reputable reputation.NooDle has a reputable reputation.NooDle has a reputable reputation.
Send a message via MSN to NooDle
Default

dammit, I was hoping for "they both drive a BatPod" images/smilies/sad.gif
NooDle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 28th, 2008, 9:23 PM   #11
Hormone Induced
 
BerserkerCatSplat's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 21st, 2005
Last Online: 10:27 PM
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 6,840
Car: ZJ 4X4X5
Rep Power: 160
BerserkerCatSplat has more bars, in more places.BerserkerCatSplat has more bars, in more places.BerserkerCatSplat has more bars, in more places.BerserkerCatSplat has more bars, in more places.BerserkerCatSplat has more bars, in more places.BerserkerCatSplat has more bars, in more places.BerserkerCatSplat has more bars, in more places.BerserkerCatSplat has more bars, in more places.BerserkerCatSplat has more bars, in more places.BerserkerCatSplat has more bars, in more places.BerserkerCatSplat has more bars, in more places.
Default

What the crap.
__________________

OSPhoto
BerserkerCatSplat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 29th, 2008, 12:01 AM   #12
Coppin' a feel
 
watisdis's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 8th, 2006
Last Online: November 3rd, 2009
Location: Over the Hills and Far Away
Posts: 810
Rep Power: 29
watisdis has between 1000 and 1499 reputationwatisdis has between 1000 and 1499 reputationwatisdis has between 1000 and 1499 reputationwatisdis has between 1000 and 1499 reputationwatisdis has between 1000 and 1499 reputationwatisdis has between 1000 and 1499 reputationwatisdis has between 1000 and 1499 reputationwatisdis has between 1000 and 1499 reputationwatisdis has between 1000 and 1499 reputationwatisdis has between 1000 and 1499 reputation
Xbox Playstation Network
Default

Seeing all the Bush haters all riled up is reason enough for this thread. images/smilies/lol.gif

+1 Jay

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacobfox View Post
I'm actually rather surprised that that dreck managed to make it into the journal, most of the time their stuff isn't complete shit.
See below

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayhawk View Post
An op-ed piece from the Wall Street Journal. Please read objectively.
__________________
watisdis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 29th, 2008, 1:57 AM   #13
Politically Charged
 
Firecat's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 23rd, 2005
Last Online: November 5th, 2009
Posts: 4,432
Rep Power: 48
Firecat has a reputation beyond reputeFirecat has a reputation beyond reputeFirecat has a reputation beyond reputeFirecat has a reputation beyond reputeFirecat has a reputation beyond reputeFirecat has a reputation beyond reputeFirecat has a reputation beyond reputeFirecat has a reputation beyond reputeFirecat has a reputation beyond reputeFirecat has a reputation beyond reputeFirecat has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I certainly hope you aren't classifying me as a "bush hater"...i'd like to think my approach to politics is a little more nuanced than that.
__________________
Firecat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 29th, 2008, 7:03 PM   #14
Previously Known As Nereid
 
PaperBiro's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 7th, 2008
Last Online: 6:09 PM
Location: Shallow grave, Construction site, UK
Age: 15
Posts: 1,223
Car: MG ZT160, Renault Clio 1.4l Expression
Rep Power: 62
PaperBiro has a reputable reputation.PaperBiro has a reputable reputation.PaperBiro has a reputable reputation.PaperBiro has a reputable reputation.PaperBiro has a reputable reputation.PaperBiro has a reputable reputation.PaperBiro has a reputable reputation.PaperBiro has a reputable reputation.PaperBiro has a reputable reputation.PaperBiro has a reputable reputation.PaperBiro has a reputable reputation.
Send a message via MSN to PaperBiro
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Labcoatguy View Post
+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


Yet another proponent of Batman as a conservative icon (reposted from the Cool Videos thread)
images/smilies/lol.gif

Brilliant.
__________________
PaperBiro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 30th, 2008, 3:51 AM   #15
 
tigger's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 11th, 2006
Last Online: November 4th, 2009
Location: Suburbia Hell
Posts: 3,201
Car: 1984 BMW 325e, 1996 Pontiac Bonneville
Rep Power: 73
tigger has a reputable reputation.tigger has a reputable reputation.tigger has a reputable reputation.tigger has a reputable reputation.tigger has a reputable reputation.tigger has a reputable reputation.tigger has a reputable reputation.tigger has a reputable reputation.tigger has a reputable reputation.tigger has a reputable reputation.tigger has a reputable reputation.
Default

I was just rereading this, and I thought, "Mr. Klavan, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
tigger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 30th, 2008, 9:02 PM   #16
 
Jacobfox's Avatar
 
Joined: May 24th, 2005
Last Online: 9:17 PM
Location: Sacramento, CA/Chicago, IL
Age: 20
Posts: 3,119
Car: Audi S6, Armada, F430, BMW M3
Rep Power: 64
Jacobfox has a reputable reputation.Jacobfox has a reputable reputation.Jacobfox has a reputable reputation.Jacobfox has a reputable reputation.Jacobfox has a reputable reputation.Jacobfox has a reputable reputation.Jacobfox has a reputable reputation.Jacobfox has a reputable reputation.Jacobfox has a reputable reputation.Jacobfox has a reputable reputation.Jacobfox has a reputable reputation.
Send a message via AIM to Jacobfox Xbox
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by watisdis View Post
Seeing all the Bush haters all riled up is reason enough for this thread. images/smilies/lol.gif

+1 Jay



See below
I am aware that this is an op ed piece. They could have chosen to run one of thousands of more pertinent or interesting pieces. This is a frankly foolish comparison.
__________________
2007 Ferrari F430 (Rosso Rubino Micalizzato, Cuoio Interior, Carbon Upper Dash & wheel, Stradale Rims)

Jake- Priest of the Prancing Horse, Archbishop of the four rings.
Blaro, No Boss and Jacobfox- RickRolling since 1989.
Jacobfox is offline   Reply With Quote
Want To Remove This Ad? Just Register For A FREE Account!
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Go Back   FinalGear.com Forums > General Discussion > Off-Topic > Political Discussion
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The AW11 MR2: Finalgear's most common car? Labcoatguy Post Your Car 24 August 25th, 2007 10:47 AM
Why arent turbos more common? Danny Tran Questions & Answers 31 October 31st, 2006 11:15 PM
common sense! jmb Top Gear 27 August 7th, 2006 6:25 PM
Common european language? transtek Off-Topic 24 July 7th, 2006 10:23 PM
President Bush vs Governor Bush jensked Off-Topic 10 May 30th, 2006 1:50 AM

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:40 PM.
All content © FinalGear.com unless stated otherwise.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2
Page generated in 0.27767 seconds with 18 queries by web2
no new posts