What should we do to free our planet from terrorism?

[zenkidori]

Originally Posted by CyberMonkey

It's much safer, quicker and cheaper to send an unmanned robot to a distant planet then humans.
Earth-orbiting space stations are something different since there is instant radio contact with earth and the possibility of a quick escape if necessary. There isn't when you are on Mars or even "only" on the moon. See what a huge success the robotcars on Mars are. And if one crashes, nobody dies.

I'm not saying that human space travel is completely useless but the costs and risks should be compared to those of an unmanned mission, and you shoudn't add the factor "yeah, an American on Mars" into the equation.

that's retarded. give ANY astronaut a chance to go to another world, but tell them, "well we won't be able to rescue you, and you'll be so far off that it's gonna take time for a distress call to get there" and I guarantee they all line up. How the hell do you people think anything got done in the days of sailing, when going a few thousand miles took months on end, with no radio or anything? "oh no there's no good communication, and they could get skinned knees" retarded.

there have been quite a few times where the earth controllers realized they could do something cool with the equiptment they sent but wern't able to. a human is still much smarter and more resourceful than a robot, and being there gives them a different perspective where they can come up with thier own ideas. plus a lot more could be explored.

but hey I guess watching a video of someone going around the 'ring is just as good as actually being there, and what's more, you'll be safe!

it's a wonder we get anything done these days with thinking like this.

Stop selling you our oil. We're the fourth largest producer of oil. And whatever you say, Bush would never bomb a western European country.

actually we've got quite a bit of oil in our own backyard, we just can't get to most of it because of environmentalists, but that's not really that big of a deal now is it?

[CyberMonkey]

I see. I wonder what all the fuss was about then when the Challenger blew up. Or why everybody was so upset when the Columbia broke into pieces. And why the manned space programme was almost shut down afterwards.

[zenkidori]

Originally Posted by CyberMonkey

I see. I wonder what all the fuss was about then when the Challenger blew up. Or why everybody was so upset when the Columbia broke into pieces. And why the manned space programme was almost shut down afterwards.

because people not involved don't understand that these people know the risks and accept them. Some people, like you, don't see space travel or human exploration as "worth it" and don't understand that those people who are involved do feel it's worth it, and know all the risks involved.

I'll never understand people like you who'd rather sit around in an armchair than go out and get things done.

[nomix]

If we allways thought like that, we'd never get out of the caves, we would still be using stones, and a rabble between me and jayhawk over the death penalty would end in one death.

[CyberMonkey]

Originally Posted by zenkidori

because people not involved don't understand that these people know the risks and accept them. Some people, like you, don't see space travel or human exploration as "worth it" and don't understand that those people who are involved do feel it's worth it, and know all the risks involved.

I'll never understand people like you who'd rather sit around in an armchair than go out and get things done.

It's not only the human factor, wasn't stressing on that. The costs are an important factor too. A machine doesn't need protectiong from radiation, cold, heat, doesn't need air, water, food, waste management and psychological help because he lives three year in 10 cubic metres and will have to live three more years in it to get back. I don't know any exact numbers but I'm quite sure there's a big difference. And I would be very sad that stuff like the Hubble Telescope which has learned us so much, would have to make place for "the Marsrace".

And I'm really sorry that I'd rather read a good book in my armchair drinking a fine whisky then going out doing manly, intense stuff like shooting animals with big guns or jumping out of airplanes to feel alive. I feel alive enough by going outside and breathing fresh, cold air in my lungs.

[zenkidori]

Originally Posted by CyberMonkey

And I'm really sorry that I'd rather read a good book in my armchair drinking a fine whisky then going out doing manly, intense stuff like shooting animals with big guns or jumping out of airplanes to feel alive. I feel alive enough by going outside and breathing fresh, cold air in my lungs.

well I suppose we'll always need people to sit on the sidelines.

[CyberMonkey]

Sorry to tell you the computer you are surfing on right now wasn't designed by backpacking through the Amazone Rainforest while fighting snakes, but by some guy with glasses in a white lab coat making calculations. The whole idea of civilisation is to take away the need of risking your life to make it through the day. That's why people in Bagdad don't like it there. That's why, ten thousands of years ago, humans started to live together in villages, breed crops and lifestock, instead of traveling around all the time having to combat mammoths with sticks and stones.

You are right that adventurous people are responsible for a great deal of revelations and knowledge, but it isn't nearly as black and white as you describe it. Nowadays the guy with the most money and the better speeches gets president, not the guy who killed the most tigers.

[Firecat]

Originally Posted by CyberMonkey

It's not only the human factor, wasn't stressing on that. The costs are an important factor too. A machine doesn't need protectiong from radiation, cold, heat, doesn't need air, water, food, waste management and psychological help because he lives three year in 10 cubic metres and will have to live three more years in it to get back.

That's actually a positive. Pushing scientists to solve these issues will usher us into a new era of space travel (the kind immortalized in science fiction).

Why should robots have all the fun?

Plus, even these advanced robots can't really think for themselves and rely on human control. You send them to do something specific, and that's all they can really do. As opposed to sending humans, who are more flexible when it comes to exploration.

[CyberMonkey]

Yeah that's true but I was speaking in context of a limited budget, where a hugely expensive manned programme could use all the funds for unmanned missions which could provide quicker and more vital information. And since the Nasa is in fact on a thight budget, I'd recommend unmanned missions like they are mostly doing now.
But maybe a manned programme could trigger public interest and provide more funding. On the other hand, if something goes wrong with a manned mission, the public reaction is much harder, and the financial losses are mostly higher too, which could mortgage the rest of the programme. The astronaut may have been aware of and in peace with the risk, but the public doesn't like people dying.

So yeah manned missions do have sense, but you have to take all the variables into the equation.

[zenkidori]

Originally Posted by CyberMonkey

Sorry to tell you the computer you are surfing on right now wasn't designed by backpacking through the Amazone Rainforest while fighting snakes, but by some guy with glasses in a white lab coat making calculations. The whole idea of civilisation is to take away the need of risking your life to make it through the day. That's why people in Bagdad don't like it there. That's why, ten thousands of years ago, humans started to live together in villages, breed crops and lifestock, instead of traveling around all the time having to combat mammoths with sticks and stones.

You are right that adventurous people are responsible for a great deal of revelations and knowledge, but it isn't nearly as black and white as you describe it. Nowadays the guy with the most money and the better speeches gets president, not the guy who killed the most tigers.

I was speaking more about the consumerist self-absorbed type of lifestyle, I would very much consider the engineers working in ARPANET and other projects as people who went out there and got things done. I'm not talking about being indiana jones here, but actually taking risks and moving humanity and civilization forward, making things better for those people who'd rather sit around in thier hobbit hole doing very little.

[wooflepoof]

I was speaking more about the consumerist self-absorbed type of lifestyle, I would very much consider the engineers working in ARPANET and other projects as people who went out there and got things done.

My dads team was the first protocol team to work on reprogramming the ARPANET