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| Political Discussion KEEP IT CIVIL! This is not a place to flame each other's views, so please act mature in here just like you should everywhere else in this forum. |
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| | #1 | |
| ^ will bore you to death | According to this guy, GM would be have been, and continue to, make the greatest cars ever. The ice caps wouldn't be melting, AIDS wouldn't have been a problem, and every time you masturbated god would save a kitten. Quote:
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| | #2 |
| Cigar Smoking Man Joined: Dec 11th, 2005 Last Online: 02:27 AM Location: A-Town, Illinois. Age: 33 Posts: 4,998
Car: MY07 G11 WRX-TR WRB. Rep Power: 86 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | I agree with everything. I work for Nissan, and they had, around 2002-2004, the Monday morning problem, but that has ceased. All the cars, with the exception of the Murano and 350Z, are either made in Mexico or in The South, where you can get quality non union employees who are *gasp!* grateful to be employed (as they should be) and making some damn fine products now. My car is union made. In Japan that is, where there is respect and reasonable terms from both the employer and employee. I suppose in UAW eye's that is insane.
__________________ It is nice to have friends like you on this forum. ...A fox among the chickens... Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery None but ourselves can free our minds… |
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| | #3 |
| The anti-uaw commandments of sorts, for other businesses to look at everyday and shudder then drop to their knees and thank God that they are not GM. | |
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| | #4 |
| while it is true that the obligations imposed by the uaw are pretty onerous , it is the fault of the idiots at gm for being stupid (or corrupt) enough to agree to them in the first place ,imo . if the uaw represents the workers of all 3 automakers , i see that as a conflict of interest situation . the union leadership can be influenced (paid) by one automaker to incite a strike at a competing automaker . if the value of the stock goes down enough , then the ownership of gm may be bought by a private investment firm . maybe then they can clean up their mess . this same kind of problem caused a lot of corporate bankruptcies in the 70s i have always been suspicious of groups whose position is predicated on the fact that they can strike and intimidate the employer and replacement workers . from what i have seen and read the union is motivated by workers rights to some extent , but primarily by being able to squeeze more money out of an employer than would be worthy in a free market situation . i remember seeing a picket line for a food service company near where i live . they were marching with signs saying "this company pays substandard wages and benefits for this area " or something like that , and i remember thinking " then go work at another fucking company if it is so much better ! ". they seemed like such sad sacks with that complaint . but at least some unions have training to improve the skills of their membership . it is nice that such unions have something more to offer than the grace of not going on strike .
__________________ Idiots:feel free to negrep me and make sure to leave a nasty comment , you putz . Thank you . ![]() ![]() ![]() G Who is john galt ? | |
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| | #5 | |
| Banned For Trolling Joined: Jun 12th, 2005 Last Online: November 15th, 2007 Location: A mile high...and then some Posts: 4,809
Car: RX-7, Jeep Cherokee Rep Power: 0 ![]() | Quote:
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| | #6 |
| ^ will bore you to death | I agree. |
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| | #7 | |
| Quote:
if the grass is greener on the other side , then go where the grass is greener . please tell me what you mean ...
__________________ Idiots:feel free to negrep me and make sure to leave a nasty comment , you putz . Thank you . ![]() ![]() ![]() G Who is john galt ? | ||
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| | #8 |
| Banned For Trolling Joined: Jun 12th, 2005 Last Online: November 15th, 2007 Location: A mile high...and then some Posts: 4,809
Car: RX-7, Jeep Cherokee Rep Power: 0 ![]() | Do you SERIOUSLY think that employers will abuse, underpay, or overwork their employees in a fertile job market? Of course not! because people would do exactly what you said, they'd jump ship to another job, they'd have a shitty retention and they won't do it. but when the job market is tough and unemployment are on the rise, that's when shitty management will put the squeeze on their employees, because where else are they going to go? Also, think about this, you've worked at a company for let's say 10+ years, done a lot of hard work and as a result you've been rewarded with raises, some benefits, maybe a pension or something, and then new management comes in and says you're not worth it, and cuts your pay and benefits. Are you going to just jump ship, even in a good job market, just so you can start out at the bottom of another company and claw your way back up? Also, what if the only alternatives are far away? You going to pull up stakes, sell your house, move your wife and kids for that job, or are you going to fight for the one you've had? The UAW is a very very very bad example of a union, and contrary to what many people believe as a result of the UAW, unions are NOT useless in "today's modern age". Just think of any job where immigrants, legal or not, are taken advantage of, any of those jobs could use a union. Just think of a job that is dangerous and undercompensated, or has the potential for management abuse for whatever reason. Those are all places where unions can benefit workers, but if you let the bosses run around and go nuts, like the UAW, then you've changed from doing good and trying to keep balance, to running a racket. |
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| | #9 | |
| Joined: Dec 11th, 2006 Last Online: 07:05 AM Location: Manhattan, Kansas Posts: 2,321
Car: '78 Ford, '74 Yamaha, '74 Honda Rep Power: 26 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | Quote:
. My dad went through that exact ordeal about 2 years ago now. He worked for a company that builds concrete saws, Diamant Boart, for the almost 15 years. They got bought out by Husqavarna iirc, who closed one of Boarts facilities; literally doubling the work load at my dad's plant. On top of that, they cut his pay substantially and stopped offering benefits. So he (and literally 3/4 of the employees) quit. Which is exactly what Husqavarna wanted, now they build noticeably shittier products but they managed to raise short term profits. My dad eventually got a job for a company that builds those airport baggage tractors and carts, with about the same pay and benefits Diamant Boart offered him before the takeover, and more opportunity for advancement. I do agree though, that the UAW is a shit union and if it were legal I'm sure the big 3 would have ditched them years ago. A friend of mine is a carpenter (a fucking carpenter!) for the UAW at the Ford Claycomo plant. He makes $27 an hour doing nothing. He brings 3 newspapers to work each day, reads them front to back, each one. Every once in a while he's got to go fix a door, or a chair, or some trim. He knows that there are thousands of other union guys just like him, not doing a damn thing but making over 60k a year with full benefits. It's terrible. Unions are definitely not all bad though, so it makes me mad when republicans take a story like this and imply that all unions are this way. No, most unions are interested in the preservation of their employers. The UAW definitely seems like a leech in this respect. "Let's bleed 'em dry! Who cares about tomorrow!". What really makes me mad is that the union leader said something about how GM needs to design some cars people want. Shit, it seems to me that people like the cars, they just don't like them falling apart. Like the crap headliners in the eighties cars, or the problem they had with head gaskets on the gen IV truck engines. That's not a "design" problem, it's a build problem. | |
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| | #10 | |
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i did not say that was the average example of a union . i am not saying there is no use for unions . however , i think that any union should be a company union . that makes more sense , economically . the japanese did pretty well with company unions in terms of quality and economically . hopefully ,if you have worked somewhere for 10 yrs ,you have enough skills to get you a pretty good job elsewhere . if not , that's rough , i must admit . but a lot of people leave their industrial jobs afraid of what will happen and wind up in better jobs than what they had , too . apparently , the legal protections to the benefit of the uaw have put it in a position of being able to play the role of racketeer . the big questions in that case are what are the protections , how to remedy it , the difference between protecting the worker and protecting the union ,how to take away the barriers to competition in the employment market . i have also had union jobs in the past . there were advantages , sure , but the biggest problem i have with it is that there is no reward for making an effort , and no punishment for being lazy . just try to look average . i find it boring to live that way . any free market needs information exchange . even the labor market . i also wish to say that maybe more information exchange is in order about the dangers associated with different types of jobs . chemical , biological , repetitive motion , etc . categorized , with ratings , average pay , risks , medical expenses associated with it , etc. in an easy to compare and understand format . then a job searcher could weigh their options and risks . there could also be a rating for spread for a given job (the variety of risks / benefits ).i doubt anyone has this yet . it's an idea ![]()
__________________ Idiots:feel free to negrep me and make sure to leave a nasty comment , you putz . Thank you . ![]() ![]() ![]() G Who is john galt ? | ||
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| | #11 |
| True Viking Joined: May 26th, 2005 Last Online: Yesterday Location: Norway Posts: 2,838
Rep Power: 19 ![]() ![]() ![]() | Just blaming the UAW is silly. There's always more than one side to a story. As for unions as a rule, they work nice as long as they don't go greedy, simple as that. And I see the guy criticize health benefits, well, a happy worker is a productive worker, and an unhappy worker is an unproductive worker. It boils down to this, if you have to worry about your health, you're unhappy. If you turn sick, and can't afford to go to the doc, you stay sick for longer, that's more sick time and more time off work. That's bad, isn't it?
__________________ "If you're not getting the picture you want, you're not close enough" - Robert Capa "Your first 14000 pictures are your worst" - HCB - David Bailey! Who's he?! |
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| | #12 |
| Banned For Trolling Joined: Jun 12th, 2005 Last Online: November 15th, 2007 Location: A mile high...and then some Posts: 4,809
Car: RX-7, Jeep Cherokee Rep Power: 0 ![]() | Most employers have health plans where the employer pays part of the health cost, and you pay the rest, plus co-pay when you go to the doctor. Usually they take a little bit out of each check for it, but AFAIK the UAW healthcare cost is all on the business side, and it's very good. |
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