Why do "foreigners" judge the US on just a small part? [Rant]

[Viper007Bond]

I've made this argument before in various places, but I thought the subject finally deserved it's own thread and a good discussion as it's one of my bigger pet peeves.


Why do many people from other parts of the world, Europe particularly but Asia and Australia too, judge the whole of America based on some small part (be it the South where the TG gang drove through or even Hollywood)?

Some small statistics to put things in perspective:

Area of the United Kingdom: 244,820 km² (94,526 sq mi)
Area of my state, Oregon: 255,026 km² (98,466 sq mi) -- Oregon is the 9th largest state in the US

Area of ALL of Europe: about 10,180,000 km² (3,930,000 sq mi)
Area of the USA: 9,631,420 km² (3,718,695 sq mi)


So think about it. What if I were to judge people in the UK based on what I saw in France or Turkey?

Now that of course isn't the best argument as the languages, culture, etc. differ greatly, but it's not like we're all one big mixing bowl here either. I swear, in some parts of this country, people don't even speak English (and I'm not talking about southern California). The culture too is quite a bit different too in different parts of this country.


Another similar subject to this is passports. A bunch of people the other day got weirded out / freaked out the other day on IRC when I said that I've never had a passport and probably won't be getting one anytime soon.

For you Europeans, you have to have a passport basically if you drive more than 2 hours in any direction it seems. Well here, there is so much to see without even getting close to leaving the country (see area comparisons above). I mean hell, it's a 2895 mi (4659 km) drive from here to New York City which is about a due east drive nearly. It's even farther to Florida.


The same thing goes for trains and such. Someone asked me the other day on IRC why I didn't go down to Laguna Seca to watch MotoGP. After telling them how far it was, they asked why I didn't just take the train. Besides being expensive and slow (Amtrack put the ETA at 18 hours compared to like 12 driving), trains only go to like the middle of towns and public transportation is sporadic, at best, in most cities.

Europe has 3x the population of America and therefore everything is a lot more dense. Putting trains in there makes sense economically. However, here it's very common to drive for hours on end in a straight line without even seeing anything more than a tiny little town in the middle of no where. Putting an expensive high-speed train in the middle of nowhere makes little sense when it's cheaper / easier (well, post 9/11 it's not... but anyway) to just fly.


But anyway, I digress.

[/rant]

[avanti]

Because people are ignorant, its as easy as that.

I love the US and my dream is to live there one day, but obviously there are tons of negative things about the US, and things i personally don't like, but its like that in every country.

[HondaF1]

I have no problem with most American's, but you need a leader who doesnt make you country look stupid and also to stop trying to control the world.

[jensked]

Well, that makes sense.

It's the problem of oversimplifying things. Stereotypes are there for a reason: it's for stupid people to be able to identify things.

So actually, stupid people are the problem...

[Adunaphel]

I think you're right, Europe and the US cannot be compared as easily as certain people think. Over here it is fairly easy to think the US is just a load of bullcrap from what we see here. But you have to remember that all we see here is Hollywood and stuff worthy enough to make a story about on some tv programme, newspaper or magazine. Of course, Joe Standard being just a normal guy with a normal weight, normal kids, who eats home-cooked meals everyday, etc. is not worthy of making a story about. So all we see over here are just the borderline weird cases, that in most cases will freak out most Americans (or so i might hope ). Combine that with th ecrud Hollywood has been pumping out the last 30 years, your current chimpansI MEAN PRESIDENT , and it's not hard to understand why most Europeans have a skewed view of America at best. Before i came to this forum, my view of America was also pretty screwed up. But the people i met over here (save a few idiots you get everywhere ) were just normal guys like the people i know from where i live.
And some things are just pretty hard to fathom for people who are used to crossing at least 1 border for every 1000km you drive. It's so easy to go off at some American for not knowing the capital of Moldavia and it's exact geographical location, but likewise, i wouldn't know the capital of North Carolina, let alone it's exact geographical location. People that have never left Europe are in the same league as Americans who have never left the North American continent imho.
What i wonder though, about the passport story, there is no need for Americans to carry identification, or do you have simple ID cards for that? Passports are not necessary for Europeans who want to travel to other EU or Schengen countries, a simple ID card is enough for that.

I'll keep it at this for now, cos i've got a lot of work still to do.

[Viper007Bond]

Originally Posted by HondaF1

but you need a leader who doesnt make you country look stupid and also to stop trying to control the world.

Heh, don't blame me. I didn't vote for the idiot.

[Hidden_Hunter]

why do people do the exact same to any other country?
Area
- Total 7,741,220 km² (6th) 2,988,888 sq mi

And my state

Area
- Total 237,629 km² (6th) 91,749 sq mi

(one of the smallest states)


And can you say that you know that much about other countries either? Look at Australia, everyone seems to think that we're like crocodile dundee and the whole country is desert

[Viper007Bond]

Originally Posted by Adunaphel

What i wonder though, about the passport story, there is no need for Americans to carry identification, or do you have simple ID cards for that? Passports are not necessary for Europeans who want to travel to other EU or Schengen countries, a simple ID card is enough for that.

You legally have to carry photo ID at all times which 99% of the time means your driver's license. Not showing ID isn't the end of the world if you aren't driving, but the cops really prefer if you can produce some to prove who you are. If you don't have a driver's license, you can get an ID card that looks very similar to a driver's license. I had to get one of those many years back when I went to New York in middle school (this was pre-9/11, but I still had to have photo ID).

Originally Posted by Hidden_Hunter

Look at Australia, everyone seems to think that we're like crocodile dundee and the whole country is desert

You don't have a pet kangaroo? WTF?

[avanti]

^^this is the problem, I know tons of people who hate america and everything american, why? Bush etc.. People doesn't seem to understand that the decisions of one man and his administration doesn't reflect the views or "intelligence" of a whole nation.

As for the people that are amused by for example the videos where they ask random americans questions about geography etc, how stupid can you be if you belive "every" american is like this..??

Most europeans are forcefed american culture and everything that comes with it from the day they are born, we like to think we know a lot about america and the rest of the world for that matter, and I guess we expect americans to know "everything" about our insignificant tiny countries as well, since you don't we think you are ignorant fools...

[Viper007Bond]

Originally Posted by avanti

As for the people that are amused by for example the videos where they ask random americans questions about geography etc, how stupid can you be if you belive "every" american is like this..??

People getting answers right and being smart doesn't make good TV.

[MXM]

Originally Posted by avanti

People doesn't seem to understand that the decisions of one man and his administration doesn't reflect the views or "intelligence" of a whole nation.

This is not that simple either. It doesn't reflect the view of a WHOLE nation, but almost half of it anyway! Then man got re-elected after all. By americans. Not necessarily those who visit the forum, but by majority of those who vote, and that's quite a big portion of population.

[jensked]

Originally Posted by MXM

but by majority of those who vote, and that's quite a big portion of population.

No no no!!!

An American president can be elected by a minority!

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Viper007Bond

People getting answers right and being smart doesn't make good TV.

I am aware of that, but people still belive they show the average american.

MXM:
even if 50% of americans agree with Bush that is no reason to "hate" a whole country (not talking about just the population, but everything american)...

[fbc]

Originally Posted by Viper007Bond

Why do many people from other parts of the world, Europe particularly but Asia and Australia too, judge the whole of America based on some small part (be it the South where the TG gang drove through or even Hollywood)?

I think you'll find most foreigners don't judge America like that - but like most things it's the vocal minority that stands out.

[MXM]

Originally Posted by avanti

MXM:
even if 50% of americans agree with Bush that is no reason to "hate" a whole country (not talking about just the population, but everything american)...

Bah, I don't hate the country. I'm just saying that actions of a president DO reflect opinions of a very big portion of population, you can't complitely neglect this and call people ignorant.

I hate fanatical anti-americans just as much as I hate fanatical pro-americans. And both parties seem to be well represented on this forum unfortunately

[jensked]

We'll all have to learn to live with eachother, mmmkay?

[nomix]

Hell, you can't stereotype Norway. But we still do. So do our Swedish neighbors (love you guys ), so did Clarkson when he was in Norway, I guess it's just in people to oversimplify things. And it's not only normal people, scientists also do it. They usually say they need a wide data base to be able to generalize.

We normal people do it too, only we don't know what we're talking about.

[Viper007Bond]

Originally Posted by MXM

I'm just saying that actions of a president DO reflect opinions of a very big portion of population, you can't complitely neglect this and call people ignorant.

His approval ratings are in the low 30's.

And again, population / size / etc. of the country. We have over 57 times the people of Finland spread over an area 28 times the size of Finland. I consider myself to have very little in common with many people of in this country in terms of political views, religion, etc.

[MXM]

Originally Posted by Viper007Bond

I consider myself to have very little in common with many people of in this country in terms of political views, religion, etc.

Don't worry, we all you.

Now don't forget to find HD rip of tg special tomorrow for us

[teeb]

Of course, you're right, it is unfair to judge the whole of the US on a small snippet.

Thing is though, all I really know of the US are snippets - I can picture a hillbilly, I can picture someone from the South, I can picture someone from Florida, I can picture a bum in Vegas, I can picture an 'American abroad', with a hideous shirt on. I can't really imagine a plain old normal American, not least because he'd be as normal as you or I and that's not very interesting in my head. More to the point, since I've never been to the US I've no real experience to draw on, so I have to draw on what I've seen and read.

As for making fun of the US; well, it's just something that happens. You made fun of the French for ages, and they're not all cheese-eating surrender monkeys.

Having said that, I do find it a bit worrying that so many Americans don't have a passport. I seem to remember reading [back when Dubya was first elected] that only 10% of the US population has passports. This is mind-blowing to me. I can understand that there is plenty to see in your own country, and that every state is almost like a separate country with different cultures in themselves, but surely even the possibility of foreign travel excites you? Or are you content to spend your entire life within the US? I mean, you can't even hop over to Canada without a passport. Maybe this is just because foreign travel and exploring different cultures is one of my favourite things to do, but still...

Originally Posted by jensked

An American president can be elected by a minority!

And was, in 2000. Bush got 50,455,156 votes whilst Gore got 50,992,335. source