Why do "foreigners" judge the US on just a small part? [Rant]

[zenkidori]

The English do it because they're English
The Germans do it because they're German
The French do it because they're French
Everyone else does it because they want to be English, French, or German, and nobody cares about them anyway.

Originally Posted by teeb

Having said that, I do find it a bit worrying that so many Americans don't have a passport. I seem to remember reading [back when Dubya was first elected] that only 10% of the US population has passports. This is mind-blowing to me. I can understand that there is plenty to see in your own country, and that every state is almost like a separate country with different cultures in themselves, but surely even the possibility of foreign travel excites you? Or are you content to spend your entire life within the US? I mean, you can't even hop over to Canada without a passport. Maybe this is just because foreign travel and exploring different cultures is one of my favourite things to do, but still...

There are a few things you must understand when you talk about Americans and passports. First, until this year it was not a requirement if you wanted to travel between the US, Canada and Mexico and since these places are on the same continent they're more economical for most Americans.

Second, Americans don't get NEAR the same type of vacation time as Europeans. We get two weeks every year if we're lucky and have a good job, many places don't offer vacations at all. I have NEVER IN MY LIFE TAKEN A VACATION. I've been all across the US, but it's either for family or business reasons every time. When I was younger my family never had the money to take a vacation, and now that my father has pulled us up a couple classes, we don't have the time(and my mom split and continues to bleed his money away). For many Americans vacations are quite a luxury, never mind the expense of traveling overseas. If you even have the time to take a vacation, which most people don't, you may not have the money to go anywhere else besides the US or Mexico.

Third, pretty much anything you'd want to go to Europe for, besides European history, is available on the same continent. Even if you want a place with history, you can travel and learn about US and native history, or go explore ruins in Mexico or even here. You can ski or snowboard in the rockies, live like a king off relatively little on the beaches of Mexico, go hiking, biking, camping, kayaking, canoing etc. in any of our bazillion national and state parks, go gambling in vegas, visit any of the huge tourist parks(Disney world, Sea World, etc.), go fishing in Canada or Alaska, take a cruise around our huge coastline or hang out in Hawaii. In short, for most people, there just wasn't any reason to have a passport. I'm sure the number of Americans who have passports has increased thanks to the new rules, but I bet most of them still stay on the continent. There honestly isn't much of a point in going anywhere else.

My girlfriend wants to take a vacation with me before this year is up, and we'll probably end up going to Mexico for the following reasons:
it's cheap
it's close(and therefore cheap to get to)
it's fun

Other than seeing Europe, going there doesn't hold much of a draw. I'm not sure if it would be most, but many Americans who do travel overseas choose to go to Asia. Vietnam, China, Hong Kong, and Japan are very popular destinations for Americans.

[thedguy]

The argument based purely on land mass IMO is kind of weak but...

One thing that hasn't been touched on is how much of a miss-mash of culturs America has, and how that is spread out. New England has a lot of Irish, Italians, and to a lesser extent Russians (or so I'm lead to believe from the Movies). This area of Missouri has a large number of German heritage, the South west is very Spanish and Mexican influenced, the North (wisconsin, Minnesota) are heavy in Scandinavans. Considering how Europeans treat these different cultures how can europeans refer to Americans as just one single body of people.

Originally Posted by Viper007Bond

His approval ratings are in the low 30's.

And again, population / size / etc. of the country. We have over 57 times the people of Finland spread over an area 28 times the size of Finland. I consider myself to have very little in common with many people of in this country in terms of political views, religion, etc.

A perfect example is the large differences in the people of California and Oregon/Washington. Northwesterners almost seem hostile to your neighbors to the south.

There are still people that are amazingly pissed off about the Civil war. It's not quite as bad as about 20 years ago, but you tell some people down south you're a Yankee and they want nothing to do with you.

Originally Posted by zenkidori

There are a few things you must understand when you talk about Americans and passports. First, until this year it was not a requirement if you wanted to travel between the US, Canada and Mexico and since these places are on the same continent they're more economical for most Americans.

Second, Americans don't get NEAR the same type of vacation time as Europeans. We get two weeks every year if we're lucky and have a good job, many places don't offer vacations at all. I have NEVER IN MY LIFE TAKEN A VACATION. I've been all across the US, but it's either for family or business reasons every time. When I was younger my family never had the money to take a vacation, and now that my father has pulled us up a couple classes, we don't have the time(and my mom split and continues to bleed his money away). For many Americans vacations are quite a luxury, never mind the expense of traveling overseas. If you even have the time to take a vacation, which most people don't, you may not have the money to go anywhere else besides the US or Mexico.

Third, pretty much anything you'd want to go to Europe for, besides European history, is available on the same continent. Even if you want a place with history, you can travel and learn about US and native history, or go explore ruins in Mexico or even here. You can ski or snowboard in the rockies, live like a king off relatively little on the beaches of Mexico, go hiking, biking, camping, kayaking, canoing etc. in any of our bazillion national and state parks, go gambling in vegas, visit any of the huge tourist parks(Disney world, Sea World, etc.), go fishing in Canada or Alaska, take a cruise around our huge coastline or hang out in Hawaii. In short, for most people, there just wasn't any reason to have a passport. I'm sure the number of Americans who have passports has increased thanks to the new rules, but I bet most of them still stay on the continent. There honestly isn't much of a point in going anywhere else.

I've had very similar experiences. I've gone to Mexico probably 15 times for trivial reasons as a child. Not a single person that was ever with me had a passport. Hell the last time I went I took a friend who was an immigrant from Mexico and didn't even bring ID and other than a few extra minutes at the border crossing, the patrol didn't seem to really care.

Most people I hear that want to go somewhere on vacation almost always say Hawaii, California or Florida, and never get to go because of work. Europe has the French/Spanish Riviera, we got those places. A lot of Americans, sad to say, just don't understand why they should bother visiting Europe.

Also I hear of college age kids "backpacking Europe" these same people seem to come from families with a little more cash, and likely parents who have been to Europe (on business).

[zenkidori]

Yeah the backpacking thing is pretty popular, at least as an idea, among the upper-middle and upper class kids. Usually their parents have paid for the college and their "senior trip" as it's called. These kids don't usually have jobs or bills either.

I on the other hand...

[Firecat]

I'm sure American music, tv, and movie exports probably shapes opinion as well. Whether in a positive or negative way, I wouldn't know.

[Cobol74]

Some Hollywood product is an utter disgrace, you know who you are U571, the Patriot, etc.

Generally US TV and most films are really great - but please find another nationality as the baddie - there are other nationalities you know.

[cdbob]

Well I think in Canada most people do not approve of the US, because of the power its goverment wields. I'm not saying that I feel this way at all. But the problem is most people assiociate a whole country from what they have seen of its goverment. Second we see Hollywood all the time on the news, we don't mind this, but I feel some Canadians really don't want to see so much of it. Third we get a lot of people who come here and are complete jerks who don't respect US or where they are. However if Canadians were to go down into the US they would realize how friendly the people are. I mean the difference between the two countries is noticeable despite how similer they may look, but I personally love it in the states. Things are cheaper, the people are just as nice, if not nicer, there are more cities, more historical places to go and more things to do. In fact I would far rather live in the United States then in Canada. I think the same goes for Europeans if you go by what you see on the news then you will not like the US but if you go there you will discover what the US is really like. Thats the problem with media, they never show you the real truth behind things and if they did, then they would have no interest as someone said earlier in this thread. I think the same goes for Canada Americans don't realize that we are like a smaller (by population not land size), less interesting, country with similer culture. I think you have to see a country to understand what that country is like.

[jayhawk]

I really should have showed up for the meet in Germany a few months ago, with my wife, because we are the average Americans you never hear about. I would have even trimmed my devil horns so I could fit in better!

[thedguy]

Originally Posted by Cobol74

Some Hollywood product is an utter disgrace, you know who you are U571, the Patriot, etc.

Generally US TV and most films are really great - but please find another nationality as the baddie - there are other nationalities you know.

U571 was a great comedy. I laughed my ass off when the rivets, that don't exist on submarines, started flying all over the place causing leaks.

We have found a new enemy, now it's some group who believes in Allah, or some American disillusioned with the gub'ment.

[vRS]

In general people make fun of every country, I live in Scotland and were considered drunken, ginger hooligans that shag sheep. Without Bush and his politics and the Iraq war I'm sure America wouldn't be a as badly talked as bout as it is.

When I picture an American oddly the first thing that comes to my mind is Johnny Cash and not some yokel like that bloke of the Simpson's.....

[zenkidori]

Originally Posted by cdbob

I think the same goes for Canada Americans don't realize that we are like a smaller (by population not land size), less interesting, country with similer culture. I think you have to see a country to understand what that country is like.

I have honestly never heard anyone here say anything bad about Canada. I know a lot of people who go there for fishing, snowboarding or weed and don't have many bad things to say about Canada or Canadians, and I've never heard of one of us being treated badly over there. shit, if Canada and Mexico swapped geographical places, I'd have to get dual citizenship!

and one thing I've noticed about this issue is that we(Americans) are a pretty self-deprecating society, always poking fun of our various cultures and stereotypes, but foreigners seem to equate us all with the dirty south, and that just gets old and a bit irritating after a while. it's like, there are so many other groups to make fun of already.

[jayhawk]

Originally Posted by vRS

In general people make fun of every country, I live in Scotland and were considered drunken, ginger hooligans that shag sheep.

I thought that was the Welsh....

[jayhawk]

Originally Posted by teeb

And was, in 2000. Bush got 50,455,156 votes whilst Gore got 50,992,335. source

That is fine and good, but read this for more info on the electoral college.

[thedguy]

Originally Posted by zenkidori

I have honestly never heard anyone here say anything bad about Canada. I know a lot of people who go there for fishing, snowboarding or weed and don't have many bad things to say about Canada or Canadians, and I've never heard of one of us being treated badly over there. shit, if Canada and Mexico swapped geographical places, I'd have to get dual citizenship!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0109370/

Every crack I've ever heard about Canada has pretty much made fun of how hospitable Canadians are.

The only other argument I've ever heard was "It's Canada, Canada sucks" with no real reasons why.

[tigger]

Originally Posted by MXM

This is not that simple either. It doesn't reflect the view of a WHOLE nation, but almost half of it anyway! Then man got re-elected after all. By americans.

A few points. First off, no one I know completely agrees with Bush's views. That may partially be because the last couple presidential elections here basically boiled down to, "Which idiot do you hate less?". Finally, we've got a whole bunch of people who won't vote for a "liberal" because the term has been demonized so much. That pisses me off more than just about anything.

Like others have said, for most Americans there is no need for a passport. Someday i'd like to do alot of traveling overseas, but i'm in college now; and any job I could get with my current education wouldn't give me shit for vacation time. Plus I really like where i'm at; no car inspections, cheap gas, and I can't throw a rock without hitting some V8 pushrods .

Stereotypes are fun; it's just that the ignorant people who live by them kind of ruin the joke.

[I<3myV8]

I think hating America has become the "cool" thing to do because it makes you look like a pseudo-intellectual. Pretty sad.

[TomCat]

Originally Posted by MXM

Bah, I don't hate the country. I'm just saying that actions of a president DO reflect opinions of a very big portion of population, you can't complitely neglect this and call people ignorant.

In 2000 Bush received 54 million votes. In 2004 Bush received 62 million votes.

America has a population of 300 million.

At most 20% of the US voted for Bush. His approval ratings aren't much higher.

Using George W Bush as a reason to judge America as a whole is very much ignorant.

[BlaRo]

Originally Posted by zenkidori

I have honestly never heard anyone here say anything bad about Canada. I know a lot of people who go there for fishing, snowboarding or weed and don't have many bad things to say about Canada or Canadians, and I've never heard of one of us being treated badly over there. shit, if Canada and Mexico swapped geographical places, I'd have to get dual citizenship!

and one thing I've noticed about this issue is that we(Americans) are a pretty self-deprecating society, always poking fun of our various cultures and stereotypes, but foreigners seem to equate us all with the dirty south, and that just gets old and a bit irritating after a while. it's like, there are so many other groups to make fun of already.

Originally Posted by thedguy

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0109370/

Every crack I've ever heard about Canada has pretty much made fun of how hospitable Canadians are.

The only other argument I've ever heard was "It's Canada, Canada sucks" with no real reasons why.

[MXM]

Originally Posted by jayhawk

I really should have showed up for the meet in Germany a few months ago, with my wife, because we are the average Americans you never hear about. I would have even trimmed my devil horns so I could fit in better!

There's always next year ...and one after that, and so on

Originally Posted by TomCat

In 2000 Bush received 54 million votes. In 2004 Bush received 62 million votes.

America has a population of 300 million.

At most 20% of the US voted for Bush. His approval ratings aren't much higher.

Well, if you want to dig up numbers you have to consider how many out of those 300M are in the voting age? Around 70%, that makes 210M. Over half of them voted, others didn't give a fuck, which makes them even worse imho.