Why do "foreigners" judge the US on just a small part? [Rant]

[tigger]

un_dee don't tell people not to make generalizations and go on to make a few yourself .

Originally Posted by un-dee

I am sorry but you cannot at the same time always go on about America, fuck yeah, but when something bad turns up suddenly there is nothing that seems to be essentially "American".

Well the "America, Fuck Yea" thing is sarcasm as far as I'm concerned, you know like "lol leafsprings, lol pushrods, lol Corvette" . As far as bad stuff; the "gun culture", or however you want to term it, is undeniably a part of America, even if many individuals don't like it. But stuff like alcoholism and homicide is not "essentially American". Actually I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone from any nationality who claimed "something bad" as an essential part of their culture. Terms like "bad" and "essential" in this context are way too subjective anyway.

Originally Posted by un_dee

Don't you have a basic set of values that ties your nation together? If you don't have that you can barely consider yourself a proper nation.

"Basic set of values?" No . Name me a whole modern country that does. Some people are liberal, or conservative, or christian, or atheist or whatever. Okay sure Cobol74, we all have more or less the same laws and drive on the same side of the road . That's not culture.

[zenkidori]

lol, that's so hilarious that some of you think the "America fuck yeah!" shit is serious.

[cvrefugee]

Originally Posted by tigger

"Basic set of values?" No . Name me a whole modern country that does. Some people are liberal, or conservative, or christian, or atheist or whatever. Okay sure Cobol74, we all have more or less the same laws and drive on the same side of the road . That's not culture.

We should band together to create a single political and social power in the U.S. then call it the National Socialist American Workers' Party. Yeah, that'll work!

[thedguy]

Originally Posted by un-dee

Don't you have a basic set of values that ties your nation together? If you don't have that you can barely consider yourself a proper nation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Constitution

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...Bill_of_Rights

Originally Posted by tigger

"Basic set of values?" No . Name me a whole modern country that does.

Germany Circa 1938.

[Karoug]

Originally Posted by Hidden_Hunter

<----


and we're better at sport

No yer not!!
And we don't have a shedload of dangerous plants and animals!!

[tigger]

Originally Posted by cvg

We should band together to create a single political and social power in the U.S. then call it the National Socialist American Workers' Party. Yeah, that'll work! [User Posted Image]

Originally Posted by thedguy

Germany Circa 1938.

Well I was kind of trying to avoid using fascist Germany as a response, it's too easy .

[thedguy]

I only did it because of un-dee's location. I couldn't help it. Damn Godwin's law.

[un-dee]

1. I know the America, Fuck Yeah! thing is a joke, I used it as an expression for the extreme selfloving of some american forum members.
2. The Nazi comparison is so old and lame.
3. Basic set of values would be like: Free Capitalism, cheap food, powerful cars, liberalism, stuff like that
Whats so hard to understand about that? You just can't say you are one nation when theres nothing that holds the whole thing together except for the geographic positions of its inhabitants.

Originally Posted by TomCat

It's easy to justify denying it when it's the truth.

Comparing Germany and it's 16 states and 82 million citizens to the United States, with it's 50 states and 300 million citizens isn't exactly the same. It would be no different then saying Americans are the same as Germans, because we all live on Earth.

You seem to have read "How to discuss, Part 1: Completely missing a point on purpose"

What parts of America have you visited?

I have visited California, New York, Texas, Arizona, Nevada, New Jersey, Wyoming, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, Pennsylvania, Vermont and Utah.
Yes, some of them were tourist places but we also have friends who live in New York and my dad worked in Texas for some years where I visited him several times (Dallas, Houston).

[cvrefugee]

Don't you have a Hitler's Youth meeting to attend?

[un-dee]

No, they fired me for being such a Nazi.

[nomix]

I know a couple of people who would argue that the United States is ruled by a Nazi.

Come on people, flame on!

[un-dee]

Your mom is a nazi.

[nomix]

Now you're getting personal. Your mother is a communist.

[tigger]

Originally Posted by un-dee

1. I know the America, Fuck Yeah! thing is a joke, I used it as an expression for the extreme selfloving of some american forum members.
2. The Nazi comparison is so old and lame.
3. Basic set of values would be like: Free Capitalism, cheap food, powerful cars, liberalism, stuff like that
Whats so hard to understand about that? You just can't say you are one nation when theres nothing that holds the whole thing together except for the geographic positions of its inhabitants.

1. And there's no euro-elitists on here either .

2. Idk, this was still pretty funny...

Originally Posted by cvg

Don't you have a Hitler's Youth meeting to attend?

3. Well if that's all your looking for then thedguy already answered your question. Liberalism and I suppose relatively free market economics sums up the Bill of Rights. However, just like anywhere else there are hippies and commies who don't like powerful cars, free markets, liberalism or cheap food .

Originally Posted by un_dee

Your mom is a nazi.

Originally Posted by nomix

Now you're getting personal. Your mother is a communist.

And both of your moms are French.

[Goose+]

Originally Posted by tigger

And both of your moms are French.

How is it possible for two women to have a child?

[zenkidori]

science


PS why would you ask that in the first place?

[phuckingduck]

Originally Posted by un-dee

3. Basic set of values would be like: Free Capitalism, cheap food, powerful cars, liberalism, stuff like that
Whats so hard to understand about that? You just can't say you are one nation when theres nothing that holds the whole thing together except for the geographic positions of its inhabitants.

I can't speak for anyone else here, but if I moved to certain parts of the country I'd go bat shit insane. And I'm sure the people in those parts would say the exact same thing about moving to Seattle. Yes, for the most part, we like capitalism, and cheap food. Powerful cars? Ummm...if anyone can get 40mpg and 400hp would they complain? I think not. But you can't. So no, I'd say powerful cars are not a thing that unify our country. It certainly feels like there's as many Prius's up here as there are old GM F-Body's.

[tigger]

Originally Posted by phuckingduck

I can't speak for anyone else here, but if I moved to certain parts of the country I'd go bat shit insane.

I know what you mean. For example, I think a lot of people (say from the coasts) wouldn't think there's any difference between my city and Dallas, Texas. There are similarities, but I hate it; I hate Dallas with a passion. Not really for any good reason either .

Originally Posted by Goose+

How is it possible for two women to have a child?

You seem to be confused. I addressed 2 people. Who each, individually have a mother. Both of those mothers are French, because I couldn't come up with anything particularly witty or original. I would replace it, but the moments passed and i've already confused you. Plus zenkidori's image of Bill Nye is funnier anyway .

Originally Posted by nomix

I know a couple of people who would argue that the United States is ruled by a Nazi.

I've heard comparison made too, but I fail to see how anyone could actually seriously make the comparison. Sure there's been a relatively (relative compared to a fascist regime) small erosion of personal freedoms, but Hitler was popular; Bush, not so much.

[nomix]

Originally Posted by tigger

I've heard comparison made too, but I fail to see how anyone could actually seriously make the comparison. Sure there's been a relatively (relative compared to a fascist regime) small erosion of personal freedoms, but Hitler was popular; Bush, not so much.

After all, it was a joke. But yes, you're right. Hitler at least had some high approval, even if that probably had something to do with propaganda and so on.

But it's not uncommon in Europe to refer to the US as a fascist state. I'm not saying it's correct, I'm just saying it happens. And by "American" definitions, I am a marxist. Simply because I believe in something else than market liberalization.

But what's funny with America is that there's some economic liberalism (not all that much, but a load more than in, let's say Norway), while it has been conservative concerning morals and values for ages (even if you find a lot of value liberal Americans).

Seems to me, what's referred to as the "left" in American politics is what we would refer to as the "right" in Norwegian politics. I know someone who comes even closer to the definition "communist" than me, that means she's placed on the far left on the political axes in Norway. She uses a lot of time on defending what we would define as a social-liberalist in Norway (Michael Moore), and believe me, she would never defend the party "Venstre" (translates to "Left").

I really find it quite funny, but then again, I find it funny when members of the biggest opposition party in Norway, "Fremskrittspartiet" (The party for progress), shouts out about the "damned socialists" in the governing party, Arbeiderpartiet (like the British Labour Party, but a bit more to the left, has been in government most of the time since 1945, and held the government alone from 45-63, effectively 65, and has made Norway into the state it is today, in no small part), while they're social democrats themselves.

I find it hugely funny, it's a bit like Hitler attacking those damned national socialists.