Cursed 92 Camaro is back...

[InfernalVortex]

This is my last go round at this. I took a break from it for a while, now I'm back.

Here's my old thread: http://forums.finalgear.com/post-you...y-there-25046/

And my car:



This is what I'm doing now...


Old rear end barely hanging on here...


And here's teh new one under the car...

Got the new rear end under the car... but I just cant get any farther with it without assistance from a partner. The damn thing is just too heavy and cumbersome to work with. So while I'm taking a break and having dinner, I figured I'd post an update here.

Here is the business end:



Same top end as before, but it's a new shortblock... mostly. Same rods as before... but new crank and pistons.

Got al ightweight (23 lb vs stock 30 lb) flywheel coming... and that will be mated to my T56. Notice my new muscle car shift knob.



Gonna have a new exhaust fabbed up soon around this:



It's gonna be pretty slick sicne it will tuck into my notched crossmember that should be here tomorrow. The system will be pretty similar to this, but itw ill tuck up a little higher:



It's dual 2.5's into a 3.5 muffler. You may call it a single exhaust... but it's more a dual exhaust with one muffler than a true single exhaust when taking into account how long the system goes before merging together.

So I got a lot of work ahead of me and I've already managed to injure myself. I managed to smack myself in the face with a socket wrench... Good times.



The only concerning development is that I've managed to run the rear side of the master cylinder dry... so a bench bleed of it is going to have to happen.

[Punisher Bass]

Glad you're finally back after all this time. What do you expect the power output to be on the new engine? Assuming it works.

[MattD1zzl3]

Camaro invasion 2.0! Long time no see sir, i too am burned out and stalled on my camaro project, i made a new thread but didnt have the content to support it, one of these days ill bump it back up...

Cars looking pretty as always!

[smib]

I want one! I need to win the lotto god dammit.

[InfernalVortex]

Originally Posted by Punisher Bass

Glad you're finally back after all this time. What do you expect the power output to be on the new engine? Assuming it works.

Same as last time. Assuming it's healthy and tuned well, 300 at the wheels, 350-400 at the crank. Since it's a manual, I may get closer to 325 or 350 or so at thew heels, but that's optimistic. It's a street car. I'm really building it more for autocrossing... the motor just needs to be decent, not a world beater. It's moer for me to enjoy driving around and open tracking than to get down the 1/4.

My car is starting to lookng like it means business witha ll the non-rust/grime colored stuff under it....





Everything is finger tight. I'll have to go back and snug everything down as hard as possible and make sure all my brake lines are snug in the morning.

Then I'll have to figure out whether I want to put the motor and tranny in at teh same time, or get th transmission on a transmission jack under the car and drop the motor in by itself. My engine lift isn't long enough to get the engine over the engine mounts from the frotn fo the car, will have to do it from the side which is a royal pain in the ass... I'll ahve to figure something out. the problem is taht getting the car high enough off the ground to get the transmission under it is a bit of a bitch.

But anyway... hopefully by tomorrow evening I'll have an engine and transmission in teh car... but I got a few other knick knacks I need to take care of before that. I gotta get my brakes straightened out (bench bleeding the master cylinder, change the proportioning valve for a disc rear prop valve, and finally setting my clutch master cylinder up properly with all teh hydraulics. Also need to properly attach the rear sway bar (The hardware is still on the old rear) and get the e-brake cables run properly to my new e-brake handle.

So maybe getting the engine and trans in tomorrow is a bit optimistic... we'll see...

[starfox07]

I like the panhard bar

edit: looks like it is factory. Mustang guys were not blessed so...

[InfernalVortex]

Originally Posted by starfox07

I like the panhard bar

edit: looks like it is factory. Mustang guys were not blessed so...

Yeah the panhard bar is stock, and I think it's damn ugly too.

Mustang guys dont have them? You guys must not have torque arm suspensions like we do, then? And if that's teh case... does that mean Mustang guys add panhard bars to their cars?

[xicedlovexoxo]

Awesome Camaro, I love those beasts =3 My dad has a 1987 Z28. Its ZOMG amazing. With T-Tops. Which can be a hell of a problem here in Washington because it rains...a lot...and he's had the car for all 21 years of its life...that's a lot of leaks!

Good luck with your Camaro, I can't wait to see how it goes!

[h4nsm0l3m4n]

I've liked this body style camaro over most of the others. I'd be careful with that 6 speed though. You might be breaking some kind of unwritten rule - everyone I've seen with a camaro stick with an auto. Just looking out so you dont lynched at meet Seriously though it would be a pretty fun car to autox with

Oh, and enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdegQmtgFSM

[JipJopJones]

Welcome back!
Long time no see!

Good to see the car is finally coming together. Hopefully everything will go as planned this time round.

[starfox07]

Originally Posted by InfernalVortex

Yeah the panhard bar is stock, and I think it's damn ugly too.

Mustang guys dont have them? You guys must not have torque arm suspensions like we do, then? And if that's teh case... does that mean Mustang guys add panhard bars to their cars?

Unless its an SVT, or newer than 2005 chances are it won't have any sort of locating device aside from the horrid triangulated 4 link. *shivers*

Most mustang owners could care less about cornering though so only a few ever add them.

[InfernalVortex]

I hear more people bitching about the torque arm style rear suspensions (panhard is pretty much required) and how hard they are to work with and talking about how much better the mustang rear suspensions are... so... I guess it just depends. Good to hear something good about camaro rear suspensions for once.... "LIVE REAR AXLE HAR HAR" you know...


Anyway, I dont erally feel like I got much done today, but I was out there about 6 hours turning wrenches... makes you wonder where it all went.

But here is the car now:









And here is the motor... got msot of the serp belt brackets on it, and teh flywheel (though it isn't torqued down yet. I have to get those bolts to 60 ft/lbs... I gotta rig something up to tighten them without spinning the motor.




I also got my crossmember, but you wont be able to tell how awesome it is until it's in the car...

[tigger]

I was starting to wonder if you'd offed yourself when the last engine ate itself. Good to see you're back.

Originally Posted by InfernalVortex

Yeah the panhard bar is stock, and I think it's damn ugly too.

Mustang guys dont have them? You guys must not have torque arm suspensions like we do, then? And if that's teh case... does that mean Mustang guys add panhard bars to their cars?

I used to own an '85 Camaro with ~275 rear tire on it and the stock panhard bar. You could feel it flex in the corners, literally feel the car body moving over the rear axle. When it snapped into place it could be pretty unpredictable (as in mild oversteer to snap understeer mid-corner). Anyway, I think an aftermarket replacement, even if it's not adjustable, would make a noticeable difference.

For the record though, the (stock) 4 link rear on the Fox-bodies are way, way, way worse. Leaf springs do a better job fixing the rear end than that design does .

[starfox07]

Originally Posted by tigger

I was starting to wonder if you'd offed yourself when the last engine ate itself. Good to see you're back.


I used to own an '85 Camaro with ~275 rear tire on it and the stock panhard bar. You could feel it flex in the corners, literally feel the car body moving over the rear axle. When it snapped into place it could be pretty unpredictable (as in mild oversteer to snap understeer mid-corner). Anyway, I think an aftermarket replacement, even if it's not adjustable, would make a noticeable difference.

For the record though, the (stock) 4 link rear on the Fox-bodies are way, way, way worse. Leaf springs do a better job fixing the rear end than that design does .

Yes. For instance, i remember doing a burnout in my car and from what I can guess, this is what happened: As I applied torque to the rear wheels, sans torque arm/panhard bar, the rear end just started walking out to the right OR the body started walking to the left, because as soon as I let off the throttle, the body just snapped back to its original position. Weird feeling. My car didn't even have quad shocks.

[InfernalVortex]

Well I got the motor attached to the motor mounts, the transmission is under the car and will be bolted in the next day I have time to go out there (Gotta get back to my actual job for a while) and I still need to get the clutch hydraulics bolted up to teh firewall properly... It's a royal PITA because my holes Id rilled aren't lined up quite right. But I got's an idea.


Was trying to kick shove the motor onto the mounts there, but it's in!

[JCE]

Haha, this is such a good read, I can't wait to get to the end of the story! Sadly my Camaro's story is still unfinished--and will be for a while. Thanks to the world's banks and the US Goverment killing the economy (and Obama for being an idiot and not doing things the correct way) my high paid commissioned sales job went from $18.53/hr to $6.80/hr average--that's minimum wage folks. I can't even pay my rent. I've already sold out the interior of my car minus the dash and front seat belts as well as most of my restoration parts I've accumulated over 2 years. If I have to sell off the rest of my spare parts I'm going to have to.

[InfernalVortex]

Well I got my bud back out here today and we spent the afternoon getting shit done. Finally got my clutch hydraulics bolted in against the pedals through teh firewall. A horrible job for sure. I am going to love this T56 when it's all working, but I will NEVER change an auto car to a manual again. Ever. It'll be worth it this time, but this time only.

Anyway, here is the car as of now, looking the same as ever, just a carrying itself a bit higher than usual lately... The hood isnt bolted on... and I didnt latch it as of the time I took teh picture, so that gap between teh hood and the bumper cover isn't normally going to be there.



We got the transmission lifted up into the car. My transmission jack made what woudl have been an entirely infuritating job into a fairly simple, though tedious one. It was just one of those take it easy and do it right type things. Dont want to snap the input shaft off the transmission or mangle the pilot bearing in the crankshaft... so it was just one of those things. A bit tedious, but went very well.


Here it is all raised up. I got my fancy crossmember in. You can barely tell how it tucks up to allow the exhaust to run under it. Gets me about an extra inch of ground clearance. Should be way better than it was before when I get my new system put together. For those who can't tell without a good frame of reference, you're looking straight down the bottom of the car. At the top you can see the K-member and the lower A-arms of the front suspenion on either side. You can see the rear end in teh back with no driveshaft attached.


Here is viewing from behind teh transmission towards the front. You can see the plug I have in the rear of the T56 to keep all the fluid (ATF, oddly enough...) from draining out.

So the transmission is elevated up into the car... now what?


SHIFTER TIME!


Here we go... clutch pedal hydraulics are all hooked up. Clutch seems like it works fine so far... I dont think it'll be necessary to bleed it, but Im not sure what it's SUPPOSED to feel like to compare. I know how brake pedals feel when there is air in the lines, and I had my girlfriend who drives a manual car come and check out how the pedal felt to her and she said it felt a little stiff, so as far as I'm concerned that's a good sign.

Really the whole thing went very smoothly. Almost too smoothly. I've heard stories about how hard it is to get the clutch fork etc all lined up against the pilot bushing and all that stuff... but it seemed extremely easy to me? I almost wonder if I'm missing something extremely fundamental.

Anyway, the only real concern I have is that the hole I have for the shifter is about 1/16 of an inch too small on either side. If you look closely in the picture you can tell the floor pan is bowed up in teh rear and is interfering with the frotn of the shifter plate pretty badly in the front. I'm worried that as soon as I fire up the motor and start revving it up, it's going to really put a lot of strain on that area in the transmission tunnel, and if it manages to bend/massage all that metal out the way, I have a feeling it will rattle like crazy and drive me insane... so I'm gonna have to go back and cut it a little farther forward with some tin snips or something. I'm just not happy with how it's fitting.

From here I have to work on getting the money for a speedo converter box (Digital speedo in my car, so I dont ahve to buy those crazy expensive mechanical/digital converter boxes) because otherwise it's going to think I'm doing 80 mph going down my driveway. I've got to wire up my new reverse lights. I've got to figure out my reverse lockout solenoid wiring. I've got to wire up my ignition system again, my starter, my fan circuit, and my neutral safety switch, and I think I'll put in a hidden killswitch for the starter so that in case some fool wants to steal my car they wont be able to get anywhere with it. Also have to wire up the reverse lockout solenoid. SHouldn't have to worry about CAGS since it's not attached to an ECM to give it the signal to lockout 2nd and 3rd gear. What a stupid idea that was. I may pull out that solenoid and replace it with a plug.

I have also discovered, and am mortified, that my torque arm mount is auto only. I need to get a manual transmission torque arm mount... So I've got to take care of that. Until I do taht I cant really put the driveshaft in and the car isnt really "together". It's getting close, though.

[JipJopJones]

I'm loving this thread BTW!

I really want to do a manual swap into an El Camino and you are giving me some idea of what it will take.

What gen SBC do you have in your Camaro? I thought the T-56's didn't bolt up to the older motors? Perhaps I'm wrong but I was always under the impression that I'd have to go with a T-5 and to be honest that was a bit disheartening because I love the thought of a .50 overdrive ratio.

PS. Nice Shift nob, I'm having a tough time deciding whether I want to go the straight up hot rod ball shifter or the slightly offset "muscle car" grip shifter. Like this one v

[InfernalVortex]

Originally Posted by JipJopJones

I'm loving this thread BTW!

I really want to do a manual swap into an El Camino and you are giving me some idea of what it will take.

What gen SBC do you have in your Camaro? I thought the T-56's didn't bolt up to the older motors? Perhaps I'm wrong but I was always under the impression that I'd have to go with a T-5 and to be honest that was a bit disheartening because I love the thought of a .50 overdrive ratio.

PS. Nice Shift nob, I'm having a tough time deciding whether I want to go the straight up hot rod ball shifter or the slightly offset "muscle car" grip shifter. Like this one v

Yeah it's just an old school white shift ball. says 1-2-3-4-5-6-R on it, though...

I thought about getting a pistol grip or something like you posted... but I figure for a manual taht I need to move all over the place and will probably be all to happy to bang around and mess with, I'd be happer with one I can grab from any angle with my hand at any orientation.

[InfernalVortex]

Finally some engine shots. Since I keep the hood on it to keep the weather out... it's hard for me to grab shots of the motor... but I got a friend to take care of it today so here ya go!


Im trying to get the spark plugs in here... Damn headers...

Which brings me to the next development - headers are on the car!





Here you can really see the beauty of that fancy crossmember I got...





When I get my new exhaust routed through taht it should be able to tuck up quite well...

Compare to this: