jlk69's 96 Nissan 300ZX 2+0 N/A

[deltableh]

Nice Z, man. I know what it's like to have the N/A engine in a turbo world, but I say you do what you wanna do and enjoy it . You got the right car, though; I always liked the 2+0 more than the 2+2.

[Nocturnal]

Originally Posted by thedguy

The problem I have with people saying "only poorly setup cars have lag" is that they then eventually concede and go on about boost threshold.

I don't give a damn what it's called, you put your foot down in 6th gear at 3000rpms in a t78 supra it's not gonna build boost worth a damn and it will definitely not pull like a similarly powerful N/a engine (that is built with street manners in mind of course), in the same conditions.

Similarly, put your foot down in an N/A Supra at 570rwhp (though good luck with getting there first), and at 3000rpm in 6th, it wont move. The 2JZ uses VVTi, Im sure you've heard of it and dont need me to explain what it is. Regardless to say, you can control valve-timing, add harsher cams blah blah, you're still not going to make low-down power. Ever looked at a dyno chart?

[thedguy]

Originally Posted by Nocturnal

Similarly, put your foot down in an N/A Supra at 570rwhp (though good luck with getting there first), and at 3000rpm in 6th, it wont move. The 2JZ uses VVTi, Im sure you've heard of it and dont need me to explain what it is.

Yes, and no matter what they still don't have the throttle response of an N/A engine. That gap in the response is what normal people call turbo lag and what others try to write off as "boost threshold." Bigger turbo's = more of it.

If that weren't true then the manufacturers wouldn't be concocting all sorts of complicated sequential/twin turbo systems to improve response.

Regardless to say, you can control valve-timing, add harsher cams blah blah, you're still not going to make low-down power. Ever looked at a dyno chart?

Yep, I know all about it. If you've looked in some of the other threads you'll notice I'm an advocate of turbo engines with VVT, it works absolute wonders for widening the power band, in fact here is VVT on the intake cam of a Miata turbo (and notice even with VVT it still has almost no power below 3k)

Originally Posted by BlaRo

Turbo lag can be alleviated by improving low-end torque, usually through the headers and intake, if I'm not mistaken.

My entire point has been that one will hit a point where trying to make as much power as is possible on a larger motor will eventually lead to having throttle response, and low end torque issues. Simply put, shove a big ass turbo on a small engine to make huge power and either you'll cram too much boost down it and blow the motor or have to rev the piss out of it.

It's perfectly reliable, it's just not very easy to work on. Those twin turbos and requisite piping force don't leave much room underhood, so it's relatively harder to make upgrades, do silly engine swaps, etc. Lots of NA owners end up swapping a turbo motor into there anyway...and some crazy dudes end up putting LS1s in there. (Heresy!)

LS1 300zx has been done, and it's quite impressive.

[WellsieTRD]

Always wanted a 300ZX. Nice

[kaBOOMn]

Originally Posted by Vambeer

because it is THE most tunable engine around?! because you don't mess with "mixing"?! because there IS replacement for displacement?!

Well not quite, they area heavy SOB that eat oil pumps (well early ones)

What you need is a RB26/30 from Australia

Originally Posted by thedguy

When I say "parts not available" I mean you can't just go down to the local AutoZone and order a new head gasket for an RB engine as they were never sold here.

Funny my last RB gaskit set had "made in the USA" on it, along with GM part numbers....

[thedguy]

Originally Posted by kaBOOMn

Funny my last RB gaskit set had "made in the USA" on it, along with GM part numbers....

I guess that settles it, I'll just go down to auto zone/napa and tell them I need a head gasket for a 1999 Nissan Skyline GT-R, I'm sure they'll have one on the shelf *



*yes I'm aware you're just screwing around but still...

[kaBOOMn]

Originally Posted by thedguy

I guess that settles it, I'll just go down to auto zone/napa and tell them I need a head gasket for a 1999 Nissan Skyline GT-R, I'm sure they'll have one on the shelf *



*yes I'm aware you're just screwing around but still...

hehe thats O.K, this thread needs some (lame) attempt at humour

[thedguy]

Originally Posted by kaBOOMn

hehe thats O.K, this thread needs some (lame) attempt at humour

Another attempt to save a thread from me has been thwarted! HA!

[prizrak]

You just need a nice sequential TT system and it'll be all good Although not sure if RB was two small turbos or a seq.

[The_Finn]

Originally Posted by prizrak

You just need a nice sequential TT system and it'll be all good Although not sure if RB was two small turbos or a seq.

Non-Sequential.

To hell with an RB swap. Do a VK45DE swap. Sure you will have to get a 300zxtt transmission (or a T56) to hold the torque (also maybe a rear diff) but come now who doesn't want some sexy nissan V8 goodness. LOOK someone is already doing a VK56DE swap into a Z32 so you have a path to follow

Found you a motor for 1250+shipping thats cheaper than the 16 year old mazda miata motor i an planning on buying

[thedguy]

Originally Posted by The_Finn

Non-Sequential.

To hell with an RB swap. Do a VK45DE swap. Sure you will have to get a 300zxtt transmission (or a T56) to hold the torque (also maybe a rear diff) but come now who doesn't want some sexy nissan V8 goodness. LOOK someone is already doing a VK56DE swap into a Z32 so you have a path to follow

Found you a motor for 1250+shipping thats cheaper than the 16 year old mazda miata motor i an planning on buying

I know of a shop in Lake Elsenore that has a VK56De just sitting on the floor that he wants out of there

[prizrak]

Originally Posted by thedguy

I know of a shop in Lake Elsenore that has a VK56De just sitting on the floor that he wants out of there

But it has no turbo

[Nocturnal]

Originally Posted by thedguy

Yes, and no matter what they still don't have the throttle response of an N/A engine. That gap in the response is what normal people call turbo lag and what others try to write off as "boost threshold." Bigger turbo's = more of it.

Throttle response is an easily mapped-in trait. Normal people may call it 'turbo lag', but thats inaccurate. It is actually boost threshold.

(and notice even with VVT it still has almost no power below 3k)

The word you're missing there is 'relatively'.

[Vambeer]

I wanna ask a simple question...If there is so much "turbo lag" and turbos are pretty much crap, how come drifters and even more importantly WRC cars use them? Oh well, i guess they don't really care about throttle response and imediate power...

[The_Finn]

Originally Posted by Vambeer

I wanna ask a simple question...If there is so much "turbo lag" and turbos are pretty much crap, how come drifters and even more importantly WRC cars use them? Oh well, i guess they don't really care about throttle response and imediate power...

not all drifters use them see: AE86/mustang/viper/V8 swapped G35 also WRC cars run anti-lag. No turbo car is going to have the throttle response of an NA machine it's just the way it is.* Can you do a number of things to minimize the lag you get with a turbo car? Yup properly sized turbo variable geometry and all that will give you nearly instant response but there is still going to be a certain amount of lag and thats a result of physics which as far as i know we haven't found a way to circumvent.

*yes yes if you run the old style of anti-lag (bang bang system) you will get instant boost but you will destroy your turbo the current anti-lag technology found on WRC cars is designed to keep the turbo spooled during upshifts but as far as i know it doesn't help with the initial launch like the old system did.

[Vambeer]

You know what...i won't argue with you. And with "you" i mean all americans. You have a completely different mentality. Not wrong, not right, just different. In my country we cannot afford to run 3.0lt+ engines(and by we i mean anyone not out-of-his-mind-rich).In your country these are the smallest engines. but imho opinion turbo lets you reach horsepower levels you can only dream NA. Give me an example of a 2.0lt NA engine that can produce 300HP and tell me that the throttle response is better(actually the only one I know is the one J's Racing makes and is actually 2.4). Honestly, I DONT CARE. The power band would be minimal and lets not talk about torque. So we are talking according to our own experience.

[Sruikyl]

Wow, how did this become a flame war about anti lag, engine swaps, turbo lag, drifters, rally drivers and v8's?
The OP hasn't even replied to this thread or said anything about a swap.. maybe hes happy with how it is and doesnt need some vhqsr300detttt engine mounted to a mt5966 36 speed hydromechno transmission out of a skyline Gee Tee Arr.

[Vambeer]

Of course the car is nice...But we were carried away by the conversation. Sorry...

[fbc]

Originally Posted by Vambeer

I wanna ask a simple question...If there is so much "turbo lag" and turbos are pretty much crap, how come drifters and even more importantly WRC cars use them? Oh well, i guess they don't really care about throttle response and imediate power...

The WRC rules are framed in such a way that turbo power is the only option. Rally cars also use other technologies like anti-lag to minimise the turbo lag - technologies that aren't easily applicable to road cars.

[stevanford1]

Originally Posted by prizrak

You just need a nice sequential TT system and it'll be all good Although not sure if RB was two small turbos or a seq.

FD RX-7's should show you that sequential turbos don't work. Good in theory, not in reality. Also RB26s are not even close to bulletproof. 2jz-gte is what you call bulletproof.

BTW mate nice car.