Advice on reliable used cars in Australia

[Incognitiously]

Hi, all--in a few months, I'll likey be living in Brisbane (quite a long way from Brooklyn, I tell you!).

I'd love to hear advice on which makes/models are reliable, in terms of picking up a car second-hand, and what I should be looking for, and wary of. I'm most interested in hatchbacks or station wagons (if I were loking for a car in the US I'd be quite happy with a Mini or a 3-door Focus or a Volkswagen Golf). Though I'd love to have myself a muscle car, I need to start small.

I'm reasonably competent in maintenance and repair, and I prefer manual shift.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[Labcoatguy]

/end thread
//unless the Aussies have further thoughts?

[fbc]

Same rules apply here as elsewhere pretty much - the only vehicles you'll find unique here are the Commodore & Falcon (I'm excluding the 380 & localised Camry), but since you're after a small car they're irrelevant.

You want reliability? You want Toyota, Mazda etc, the usual suspects.

Oh, and to Australia (when you get here).

[Incognitiously]

First off--thanks for your replies.

...No kidding, huh? Sounds good--I feel comfortable evaluating the usual suspects. With the US dollar no longer a point of reliable reference, about how much would I expect to pay for a small-size car that's 2-5 years old, in reasonably good condition? Are there any things you'd recommend I look out for?

--Also--thanks for the welcome! I'll likely be there by mid-June.

[Hidden_Hunter]

Holden and ford both produce variants of the commodore and falcon as station wagons and can be picked up quite cheap ex-fleet. Most are auto though and the v6 will get around high 11 low 12 litres per 100km (my brothers vy series commodore averages 12.1l/100km)

Reasonably reliable and if something goes wrong parts are dirt cheap for the local stuff.

A golf gti or a mini cooper s will run you in excess of AU$40,000 (new) by the time you on road it, be aware that we get reemed for car prices so don't get your hopes up

[Hidden_Hunter]

Also, good points of references for used cars locally is

www.drive.com.au

and

www.*************.au

(don't bother reading the reviews on drive, they're a crappy biased site)

[Quadrax]

What is your budget?

[surroundfan]

Buy a copy of the Dog and Lemon guide. It provides a wealth of knowledge about the stuff that goes wrong, although it's very biased against Euro makes...

http://dogandlemon.com/

[Dsemaj]

Holden Commodores and Ford Falcons are the best value cars. RWD, Big 6 cylinder engines, great handling, extremely comfortable and dirt cheap to fix. You can pick up ex-fleet and ex-government ones up really cheap ($15,000AUD for a 2-3 year old Holden Commodore Executive (Base model) with approx 40,000km to 60,000km)

Build quality isn't half bad, either.

What's your budget, anyway?

[SL65]

Reliable used cars? Toyota, Honda, Subaru...the list goes on. The Aussie cars would be cheaper to fix, should you need to.

[Austere]

Originally Posted by Incognitiously

about how much would I expect to pay for a small-size car that's 2-5 years old, in reasonably good condition?

$10,000 to $35,000

[Hidden_Hunter]

Originally Posted by Dsemaj

Holden Commodores and Ford Falcons are the best value cars. RWD, Big 6 cylinder engines, great handling, extremely comfortable and dirt cheap to fix. You can pick up ex-fleet and ex-government ones up really cheap ($15,000AUD for a 2-3 year old Holden Commodore Executive (Base model) with approx 40,000km to 60,000km)

Build quality isn't half bad, either.

What's your budget, anyway?

VY commodore or a BA falcon are your best bets

[Incognitiously]

Folks, thanks again for your kind replies--I'm not sure at all what the budget would be, but I expect it'll fall under $15k, which seems to line up with a vague consensus on Commodore and Falcons being my best bet.

I'll definitely be checking out those links--lots of good research to be had, and plenty of time to do it. Again--thanks!

[Hidden_Hunter]

http://www.drive.com.au/used-cars/HO...334059698&pt=1

http://www.drive.com.au/used-cars/FO...214229664&pt=1

That should give you a rough idea, the commodore is probably the better of the two

[Quadrax]

Go for a commodore or falcon on noveltly value alone if nothing else. It may be your only chance to experience a true aussie car.

Then come back here and tell us what you think of it. Crap or otherwise, we all know they aren't the very best cars in the world.

[Austere]

Originally Posted by Incognitiously

I'm most interested in hatchbacks or station wagons (if I were loking for a car in the US I'd be quite happy with a Mini or a 3-door Focus or a Volkswagen Golf). Though I'd love to have myself a muscle car, I need to start small.

I'm reasonably competent in maintenance and repair, and I prefer manual shift.
.

He wants something akin to a Mini and you all be telling him to buy a Falcon with a 4.0 V6. Even if he wanted a car that big I'm sure we could recommend something that size that isn't also terrible. Which the Commodore and Falcon are, very much so. They're Taxis and Police Cars and Rental Vehicles. They're cars that are given to you or forced upon you by necessity. No one in their right mind goes out and spends their hard-earned on one of these pieces of shit. Unless they need to tow a freakin' boat or something...


Used cars wise there's plenty to choose from because we have a massive second hand car market here. You could get any of the cars you're familiar with, like the Golf for example. It's wide open. We've got it all.

We also have all those other European manufacturers - you know, the ones that aren't German... Like Peugeot, Renault, Alfa-Romeo, Citroen, Skoda and Fiat.
Some of these cars might seem interesting, even exotic, but generally speaking, in comparison to their Japanese counterparts they're not as well made, they sold in fairly low numbers, spare parts are slightly less common and slightly more expensive, they're much more fun to drive, chicks dig 'em and they're much more soulful and enjoyable to own. So there's pros and cons.

Peugeot 306 It should be alright, I guess. They handle well and are a lot of fun to drive.

Renault Clio These aren't bad either but realistically you'd be better off with a Honda Civic - These are just for people who want something a bit different.

Alfa-Romeo 147 I really don't like modern Alfas because not only are they poorly built but they're not much fun to drive either. They do look very nice tho, I'll give em that.

A lot of these European cars don't have a very good reputation for reliability around here but I don't think their reliability is much of an issue - they just lack that aura of Ultimate Super-Reliability that Japanese cars enjoy and so people tend to just dismiss them with the blanket statement "unreliable". Plus, everybody enjoys hating on The French so that probably has something to do with it.
The only real problem with these cars it that they require Premium Unleaded which runs about forty-five thousand dollars a litre. Other than that it's mostly positives so I'd say they're worth looking into.

Other than that we have all the Japanese cars and German cars that I'm sure you're already familiar with.

[Quadrax]

It was established early on that a japanese car would probably represent the best value. Suggesting anything european for which we pay a heavy premium on here in australia is just an exercise in wasting money.

As i suggested why not take the chance to enjoy a quintessential aussie car that you probably won't have the chance to experience again. As i also said we all know they are not the best cars in the world but they are certainly not terrible. No falcon ever came with a V6.

The reason that commodores and falcons are used as taxi's, police cars and rentals is that they are large enough to carry 5 people + luggage, are relatively reliable and comparatively cheap to fix. Even the base models come with large capacity motors that will allow you to keep up with traffic while towing a 2ton boat up a hill. With government subsidies and fleet-purchase deals they are also cheap to buy.

So if you want something cheap, reliable, sensible, practical, etc. get a japanese car. Simple.

But if you want to take the chance to enjoy a car that is also cheap, practical, reliable and probably something different that you won't find in every other country in the world, then why not look at a commodore or falcon. I agree they are a larger car and would obviously use a bit more fuel.

(Disclaimer: I am not a Holden or Ford fan and i only really drive japanese cars. But if i was to go to the US i would probably want to sample one of the legendary local cars instead of just getting something i could have back home)

[Karoug]

Old Volvos are VERY reliable. I've had my 745GLT for 3 years now and not a single fault on it.. And it has done 300 000 Km.. And stay away from old french and italian cars..

[Hidden_Hunter]

Austre have to say I disagree with your suggestions, the cars you recommended would be expensive to maintain (I have an uncle with an alfa and it's ridiculously expensive to maintain)

[gti138]

Another point of reference would be redbook (www.redbook.com.au) gives indicated values and km for cars.

If you after smallish and reliable - stick to Japanese. If you want cheap to buy and maintain - go either a Commodore or Falcon. If you want slightly more expensive to maintain but way more fun - go European.

I just had a 100K service done on my '02 Peugeot 206 GTi and it was $120 at an independent Peugeot mechanic. (factory dealer price is around $400!)