Advice on reliable used cars in Australia

[kaBOOMn]

Originally Posted by Austere

He wants something akin to a Mini and you all be telling him to buy a Falcon with a 4.0 V6. Even if he wanted a car that big I'm sure we could recommend something that size that isn't also terrible. Which the Commodore and Falcon are, very much so. They're Taxis and Police Cars and Rental Vehicles. They're cars that are given to you or forced upon you by necessity. No one in their right mind goes out and spends their hard-earned on one of these pieces of shit. Unless they need to tow a freakin' boat or something...


Used cars wise there's plenty to choose from because we have a massive second hand car market here. You could get any of the cars you're familiar with, like the Golf for example. It's wide open. We've got it all.

We also have all those other European manufacturers - you know, the ones that aren't German... Like Peugeot, Renault, Alfa-Romeo, Citroen, Skoda and Fiat.
Some of these cars might seem interesting, even exotic, but generally speaking, in comparison to their Japanese counterparts they're not as well made, they sold in fairly low numbers, spare parts are slightly less common and slightly more expensive, they're much more fun to drive, chicks dig 'em and they're much more soulful and enjoyable to own. So there's pros and cons.

Peugeot 306 It should be alright, I guess. They handle well and are a lot of fun to drive.

Renault Clio These aren't bad either but realistically you'd be better off with a Honda Civic - These are just for people who want something a bit different.

Alfa-Romeo 147 I really don't like modern Alfas because not only are they poorly built but they're not much fun to drive either. They do look very nice tho, I'll give em that.

A lot of these European cars don't have a very good reputation for reliability around here but I don't think their reliability is much of an issue - they just lack that aura of Ultimate Super-Reliability that Japanese cars enjoy and so people tend to just dismiss them with the blanket statement "unreliable". Plus, everybody enjoys hating on The French so that probably has something to do with it.
The only real problem with these cars it that they require Premium Unleaded which runs about forty-five thousand dollars a litre. Other than that it's mostly positives so I'd say they're worth looking into.

Other than that we have all the Japanese cars and German cars that I'm sure you're already familiar with.

Somebody has a chip on their shoulder......

[Austere]

Originally Posted by Quadrax

It was established early on that a japanese car would probably represent the best value. Suggesting anything european for which we pay a heavy premium on here in australia is just an exercise in wasting money.

He never said he wanted the best value - he just said he wanted a small hatchback, like a Golf or a Mini or a Focus.

So yeah, a Ford Falcon is an excellent suggestion.

He already knows about Japanese and German cars because they're all sold in America. I didn't see much point in telling him what he already knows so I spent most of my post introducing him to manufacturers that he might be less familiar with but that are fairly common over here. What good is it to him if he arrives over here looking for a hatchback and sees one made by Renault at a price he can afford but all he knows about them is that they're not Ford Falcons or Holden Commodores?

Originally Posted by Quadrax

As i suggested why not take the chance to enjoy a quintessential aussie car that you probably won't have the chance to experience again.

The first night he goes into town to get drunk he'll get a ride home in a Falcon or a Commodore - either in the form of a taxi or a police car depending on how hard he likes to party - so he'll get to experience the joys of riding in a Ford Falcon - - without the tedium and boredom of owning one of those miserable pieces of crap.

Getting bit by a snake is also quintessentially Australian...

Originally Posted by Hidden_Hunter

Austre have to say I disagree with your suggestions, the cars you recommended would be expensive to maintain (I have an uncle with an alfa and it's ridiculously expensive to maintain)

Your uncle sounds like a pretty cool guy. What sort of Alfa does he drive?

Originally Posted by kaBOOMn

Somebody has a chip on their shoulder......

No, I'm just a jerk. But wait a minute - you own a lovely old Alfa and you own a Commodore! Care to weigh in on this?

Originally Posted by gti138

If you want slightly more expensive to maintain but way more fun - go European.

Exactly. He might want to spend a little more if he thinks he'll get more out of it.

Originally Posted by gti138

I just had a 100K service done on my '02 Peugeot 206 GTi and it was $120 at an independent Peugeot mechanic. (factory dealer price is around $400!)

I just got mine done last week - $70. No Joke. And this guy I take it to really knows what he's doing.



Anyway, I'm just trying to draw his attention to the cars that he might not be very familiar with because they're not sold over there. He should know about them because the more info he has the better. Yes, they aren't as reliable as their Japanese counterparts - I pointed that out to him myself - But they have other qualities and shouldn't be glossed-over simply because you yourself would be far too conservative and boring to ever buy one.

But who knows? He might come in here any minute and say "The French!?! I hate them almost as much as I hate the Italians!" and then that'll be that.

But right now I'm not willing to exclude an entire continent worth of cars without at least bringing them to his attention and telling him a bit about them first.

[Quadrax]

Originally Posted by Austere

I'm just a jerk.

Fair call.

[Hidden_Hunter]

Originally Posted by Austere

Your uncle sounds like a pretty cool guy. What sort of Alfa does he drive?

Spider

[Austere]

Originally Posted by Hidden_Hunter

Spider

Noice. Those things are as good looking as women!

[Incognitiously]

Heh. A few things:

One - I don't know why--I've ticked all the right boxes and whatnot--but my name won't show pink, though I'm a girl. I'm not bothered at all by the "chicks dig X"-type comments, I just thought I'd say something, in the interest of full disclosure.

Two - I am enjoying the hell out of reading differing opinions. True, the Falcon and Commodore are a bit bigger than what I'm looking for, but I very much like the idea of driving something uniquely Australian that would be nigh-impossible to find over here (and I have been in a Commodore!--Took a taxi back with the mister after a night out on the town). Similar reasoning drove me to avoid American fast-food chains those brief times I traveled in Europe.

Three - I had no idea Skodas were available in Australia, and I must admit, the European cars are tempting, also for the novelty of it. Especialy the Alfa, though I know I might very well be walking into a world of hurt with one. I don't mind spending weekends under the hood, though the husband-to-be might have some qualms. Heh.

By all means--keep up the advice and the conversation. I learn as much from the leads you all give me as I do just from the back-and-forth in this thread!

And once again, thanks for all the info.

[Austere]

Originally Posted by Incognitiously

Heh. A few things:

One - I don't know why--I've ticked all the right boxes and whatnot--but my name won't show pink, though I'm a girl. I'm not bothered at all by the "chicks dig X"-type comments, I just thought I'd say something, in the interest of full disclosure.

My apologies! Even without the pink username I shouldn't have assumed. I especially shouldn't have felt comfy enough to do the whole 'chinks dig 'em thing'.

My bad.

But in my experience chicks do dig 'em!


Skoda have only just gone on sale here in September of last year... There probably won't be many second-hand but the Roomster is pretty cheap to begin with so that might be within budget. I don't know their price off of the top of my head but I believe it's in the high 20's to low 30's.

EDIT: Actually, the Roomster goes from the mid to high 20's. My Dad might be buying a Skoda Octavia in few months so as he's shopping for one I can have a bit of a dig around to see what an ex-demonstrator Roomster will go for and how much they're willing to knock off of the sticker price...

[scathing]

As people have said, Japanese cars present the best value / reliability ratio so my recommendation is a Corolla, Civic or Mazda2. Maybe a Mazda2 or Jazz if you want something smaller (not a big fan of the Yaris, but more because of its looks than anything mechanical).

I do like the solid feeling of Volkswagens, though. A few mates recently picked up Polo GTis, and they're great little things.

I remember reading a local survey showing that Volkswagens aren't the most reliable cars available in terms of the number of warranty repairs per capita (i.e. hard data), but they did rate as the most reliable cars as voted by their owners (i.e. perception).

So, basically, Volkswagen owners are delusional as they think their cars are better made than they actually are.


I'm not a big fan of Falcons or Commodores, as their build quality is a bit hit-and-miss. You can get one that's well put together, but you're more likely to get one that would qualify under lemon laws.....if we had those kinds of laws down here.....than imported cars.

[andyhui01]

Originally Posted by gti138

I just had a 100K service done on my '02 Peugeot 206 GTi and it was $120 at an independent Peugeot mechanic. (factory dealer price is around $400!)

hmm... the Peugeot 206 GTI runs on a Timing Chain? I would have thought the 100k service would include a timing belt change

[gti138]

Originally Posted by andyhui01

hmm... the Peugeot 206 GTI runs on a Timing Chain? I would have thought the 100k service would include a timing belt change

Nah it's a belt - the new 207 runs a chain. The belt change was due at 80,000km but I had mine changed at 30,000km due to a leaking waterpump.. Had it done again at 100000km just to be cautious... I love my car

The belt is always priced separately to the service as $700 for a major service and $1000+ for the belt would send people running!

[Hidden_Hunter]

Originally Posted by gti138

Nah it's a belt - the new 207 runs a chain. The belt change was due at 80,000km but I had mine changed at 30,000km due to a leaking waterpump.. Had it done again at 100000km just to be cautious... I love my car

The belt is always priced separately to the service as $700 for a major service and $1000+ for the belt would send people running!

sounds like a honda service at those costs

[andyhui01]

^When I had the Civic... Honda charged me $250 for a standard service (Oil, Oil Filter, Air Filter)... etc.

My Scooby is due for a timing belt change soon, I've heard they don't come cheap due to the complexity of the Boxer engine.

[Hidden_Hunter]

Originally Posted by andyhui01

^When I had the Civic... Honda charged me $250 for a standard service (Oil, Oil Filter, Air Filter)... etc.

My Scooby is due for a timing belt change soon, I've heard they don't come cheap due to the complexity of the Boxer engine.

yeah but above and beyond the regular service is what makes it costly

[eldudez]

Probably the most appropriate car would be a Toyota Camry, the v6 manuals are fairly spritely and tend to use around 10-11L/100km. You can find these from under $7000 for the pre-2000 ones, but the better ones are the post facelift versions and run closer to $15,000. A Camry will easily go 300,000km without dramas as long as it's been serviced. The one thing which is always expensive on Toyotas is the timing belt - make sure it's been replaced already or knock about $1000 off the price if you need to get it done yourself.

A Falcon or Commodore is also an option due to their abysmal value retention, but if you don't need a large car then they're more hassle than they're worth. Steer clear of ex-taxis as most of them won't have been correctly serviced; ex-fleet cars are generally safe though they've "enjoyed" a much harder life. It's also harder to find a manual. Don't look at anything older than a BA Falcon or VY Commodore as they will be getting pretty worn out by now.

[WellsieTRD]

Originally Posted by eldudez

Probably the most appropriate car would be a Toyota Camry, the v6 manuals are fairly spritely and tend to use around 10-11L/100km. You can find these from under $7000 for the pre-2000 ones, but the better ones are the post facelift versions and run closer to $15,000. A Camry will easily go 300,000km without dramas as long as it's been serviced. The one thing which is always expensive on Toyotas is the timing belt - make sure it's been replaced already or knock about $1000 off the price if you need to get it done yourself.

There also fairly rare. You will find more auto 6's and 4cyls on the market than manuals. As a toyota tech, I would advise you to avoid camrys pre-mid 96 as they are absolute rubbish. 3VZ's are prone to oil and coolant leaks from the heads, 5S-FE's go through oil seals on the cam, crank and oil pump on a regular basis and both are bad for rear main seal leaks. I do agree though that the v6's, even in auto form, are lovley cars. So smooth and responsive and make kind of a nice noise when your foots burried in the carpet.

IMO you can't walk past a japanese hatch like a Corolla, Civic or 323. But I guess it all somes down to what you want

[eldudez]

I've always figured that if you're only going to have one car, it might as well be a sedan which is why I mentioned the Camry. True, the manuals are rare but as you said, there's nothing wrong with an auto in this case (aside from the fact it's an auto )

The japanese hatches (pretty much any of them) are excellent cars and there's plenty around but it's a bit of a hassle if you need to buy some furniture or get a few suitcases in the boot.