Ceramic brakes

Carsightings · February 14th, 2006, 02:22 PM

How do they work?how are they better that normal brakes?

and anything else you can tell me images/smilies/smile.gif

thanks

freerider · February 14th, 2006, 02:39 PM

Lighter, can handle the heat better (less fading), don't wear as fast as steel disc brakes.

Overall better performance (a lot still depends on the callipers,...), but waaaaaaaaaaay more expensive.

Edit: what of the brakes do you want to be ceramic? Pads, discs, rotors,...

araracd · February 14th, 2006, 02:40 PM

In addition to outrageous stopping power, the carbon ceramic brakes are claimed to reduce weight by almost 13 lbs. (5.8 kg) per rotor, and they're nearly impervious to heat-induced fade and will last for the life of the vehicle.

Check the links below. They're mainly about Porsche's own ceramic brakes, but the theory's the same.

http://www.autozine.org/technical_sc...er.htm#Ceramic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche...mposite_Brakes

freerider · February 14th, 2006, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Compared with conventional steel discs, ceramic brakes not only last four times longer, but also offer high braking performance, even when driving at the limit, as well as high resistance to fading. Braking performance is not diminished even after repeated braking, when driving down a mountain pass, for example. The unsprung rotating masses at the wheels are reduced by a total of around 20 kilograms or 50 percent compared with conventional brake discs, resulting in noticeably improved handling and agility.

Audi ceramic brake discs are made from a carbon fibre-reinforced ceramic. The raw material used to make this compound – known as composite ceramic – is the very hard and abrasion-resistant silicon carbide. High-strength carbon fibres are embedded in it, and these effectively absorb the stresses occurring in the material. Compared with an identical brake disc made of steel, this material lasts four times longer: the high abrasion resistance of ceramic discs means that they will last for up to 300,000 kilometres. The extreme surface hardness of the composite ceramic also means that the brake discs are unsusceptible to solid and liquid road salts as well as to corrosion and rust.

Viper007Bond · February 14th, 2006, 04:23 PM

Basically, they kick ass. images/smilies/smile.gif

Blythy · February 14th, 2006, 04:59 PM

next stop for ceramics: engine components!

(if they can get the manufacturing costs and reliability down that is)

Blayde · February 14th, 2006, 05:21 PM

why will reliability be an issue arent they fade proof?

Blythy · February 14th, 2006, 06:53 PM

as engine components, ceramics have to be manufactured very very very precisely and carefully, otherwise they're prone to cracking.

Toyota built a ceramic engine a few years back - a lot of benefits - no/less need for cooling, lighter components allows for higher and faster revving. Lighter engine weight is even more beneficial overall.

but because of the stresses involved in an engine, the parts need to engineered and produced to a high degree which means high costs which means only metal engines for the moment.

M3lover · February 14th, 2006, 09:50 PM

I think it was in C&D or R&T i once read that a very enthusiastic american Enzo owner had worn out a pair of ceramics. He had been beating it ALOT around tracks, but still. They are not 100 % indestructable, but i guess with normal road use and a track day once in a while they would last for the cars lifetime.

POWERRR!! · April 21st, 2006, 02:44 AM

what is fading anway?

fbc · April 21st, 2006, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by POWERRR!!

what is fading anway?

The performance of the brakes fades as the brakes get hot and can't disipate the heat effectively. The most common time this happens is when people overheat the brakes going down a mountain, and gradually find they have less and less braking force.

Z Draci · April 21st, 2006, 10:04 AM

As fbc already said, fade happens when the rotors and brake pads overheat. The pads begin to vaporize so a layer of gas forms between the pad and rotor surface. The brake fluid begins to boil and forms air pockets in the brake lines.

Many factors combine to give you brake fade. And many things can be done to minimise the occurence of it.

Viper007Bond · April 25th, 2006, 03:18 AM

The brakes can even start smoking or whatnot.

When I went to California a few years back, we were hauling a tent trailer with our old Corisica (a car that's not designed for towing) and coming down a really long, steep hill with a lot of traffic, the brakes literally started smoking and such. We had to pull over because the disc brakes just got too hot and basically started to stop working.

February 14th, 2006, 02:22 PM	#1
Carsightings Joined: Dec 25th, 2005 Last Online: July 25th, 2006 Location: Israel Posts: 1,017 Rep Power: 0	Ceramic brakes How do they work?how are they better that normal brakes? and anything else you can tell me thanks __________________ Some one has been fucking with my profile.

February 14th, 2006, 04:23 PM	#5
Viper007Bond Lazy Head Dude Joined: Sep 21st, 2003 Last Online: Yesterday Location: Portland, Oregon Age: 24 Posts: 20,988 Car: Dodge Viper (I wish!) Rep Power: 234	Basically, they kick ass. __________________ Fight back against the evil Quiky by +1'ing this post! There is no replacement for displacement. - Wolfgang Bernhard, Chief Operating Officer, Chrysler Group talking about the Dodge Viper SRT-10 ... I ask Herb Helbig, vehicle synthesis manager for SRT and a member of the original Team Viper development group since day one, if they'd ever thought of adding traction control. "It comes with two," he says, pointing at my feet. "Learn to use them." Got it. - Motor Trend on the 2006 Dodge Viper Coupe, November 2005

February 14th, 2006, 04:59 PM	#6
Blythy Joined: Sep 27th, 2005 Last Online: Yesterday Posts: 976 Car: Vauxhall Corsa SXi 1.2 Oh fuck yeah! Rep Power: 14	next stop for ceramics: engine components! (if they can get the manufacturing costs and reliability down that is) __________________

February 14th, 2006, 05:21 PM	#7
Blayde Joined: Dec 20th, 2004 Last Online: 04:30 AM Location: Bahrain Posts: 1,894 Car: '02 Nissan X-Trail, '06 Honda Civic EXi Rep Power: 52	why will reliability be an issue arent they fade proof? __________________ Some say he migrated when fuel hit 4 pounds per gallon and that he can make 'special price' for you. All we know is, he's the Stig's Arab cousin; Al-Stig!

February 14th, 2006, 06:53 PM	#8
Blythy Joined: Sep 27th, 2005 Last Online: Yesterday Posts: 976 Car: Vauxhall Corsa SXi 1.2 Oh fuck yeah! Rep Power: 14	as engine components, ceramics have to be manufactured very very very precisely and carefully, otherwise they're prone to cracking. Toyota built a ceramic engine a few years back - a lot of benefits - no/less need for cooling, lighter components allows for higher and faster revving. Lighter engine weight is even more beneficial overall. but because of the stresses involved in an engine, the parts need to engineered and produced to a high degree which means high costs which means only metal engines for the moment. __________________

February 14th, 2006, 02:39 PM	#2
freerider Joined: Jan 5th, 2005 Last Online: November 12th, 2008 Location: Belgium Posts: 464 Rep Power: 0	Lighter, can handle the heat better (less fading), don't wear as fast as steel disc brakes. Overall better performance (a lot still depends on the callipers,...), but waaaaaaaaaaay more expensive. Edit: what of the brakes do you want to be ceramic? Pads, discs, rotors,...

February 14th, 2006, 02:40 PM	#3
araracd Joined: Oct 13th, 2004 Last Online: November 8th, 2007 Location: Portugal Posts: 732 Car: Look at my avatar Rep Power: 0	In addition to outrageous stopping power, the carbon ceramic brakes are claimed to reduce weight by almost 13 lbs. (5.8 kg) per rotor, and they're nearly impervious to heat-induced fade and will last for the life of the vehicle. Check the links below. They're mainly about Porsche's own ceramic brakes, but the theory's the same. http://www.autozine.org/technical_sc...er.htm#Ceramic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche...mposite_Brakes

February 14th, 2006, 09:50 PM	#9
M3lover Joined: Nov 23rd, 2005 Last Online: 08:39 AM Location: The milkyway, Earth, Denmark, Odense Age: 22 Posts: 913 Car: Pedalpower for now... Rep Power: 13	I think it was in C&D or R&T i once read that a very enthusiastic american Enzo owner had worn out a pair of ceramics. He had been beating it ALOT around tracks, but still. They are not 100 % indestructable, but i guess with normal road use and a track day once in a while they would last for the cars lifetime. __________________ Mmmhh, gotta love living in Denmark. We have 180 % tax on cars. Yep, an M3 cost about the same as a 997 Turbo does in Sweden, and sadly i'm not kidding!

April 21st, 2006, 02:44 AM	#10
POWERRR!! Joined: Dec 18th, 2005 Last Online: November 29th, 2008 Location: New York, NY Posts: 485 Rep Power: 15	what is fading anway? __________________

April 21st, 2006, 10:04 AM	#12
Z Draci Joined: Mar 31st, 2005 Last Online: May 23rd, 2007 Location: Glendora/Riverside, CA Posts: 915 Rep Power: 0	As fbc already said, fade happens when the rotors and brake pads overheat. The pads begin to vaporize so a layer of gas forms between the pad and rotor surface. The brake fluid begins to boil and forms air pockets in the brake lines. Many factors combine to give you brake fade. And many things can be done to minimise the occurence of it. __________________ *"The car is the closest thing we will ever create to something that is alive." - Sir William Lyons*

April 25th, 2006, 03:18 AM	#13
Viper007Bond Lazy Head Dude Joined: Sep 21st, 2003 Last Online: Yesterday Location: Portland, Oregon Age: 24 Posts: 20,988 Car: Dodge Viper (I wish!) Rep Power: 234	The brakes can even start smoking or whatnot. When I went to California a few years back, we were hauling a tent trailer with our old Corisica (a car that's not designed for towing) and coming down a really long, steep hill with a lot of traffic, the brakes literally started smoking and such. We had to pull over because the disc brakes just got too hot and basically started to stop working. __________________ Fight back against the evil Quiky by +1'ing this post! There is no replacement for displacement. - Wolfgang Bernhard, Chief Operating Officer, Chrysler Group talking about the Dodge Viper SRT-10 ... I ask Herb Helbig, vehicle synthesis manager for SRT and a member of the original Team Viper development group since day one, if they'd ever thought of adding traction control. "It comes with two," he says, pointing at my feet. "Learn to use them." Got it. - Motor Trend on the 2006 Dodge Viper Coupe, November 2005

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